Tuesday, 11 February 2025

Dr. Manhattan VS Richard Nixon (Watchmen VS Monument Mythos)

“It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.”

- George Washington

Doctor Manhattan, the Blue Atomic God of The Watchmen.

Richard Nixon, the Moon God from The Monument Mythos.

What is life? What is the purpose? How do we get meaning? Is meaning given to us, are we assigned it, or are we free to make our own choices? When two people at the top of their respective universes meet, how will they clash? Will the all-powerful blue hero take the (not-so) US president down? Or will Nixon open the floodgates on this? Come along to Saul’s VS blog to find out who would win a DEATH BATTLE!!!!

Before We Go Anywhere

This matchup is very weird, so it only makes sense that their media lists are just as weird. For Doctor Manhattan, we’ll be primarily sticking to the Watchmen continuity of comics, as written by Alan Moore himself, alongside the Before: Watchmen series. There will also be some details from the various Watchmen adaptations, as long as they don’t contradict anything from the core series. The most important element to clarify would be that this will be excluding Dr. Manhattan’s time in the main DC universe, but we will be addressing his time there in the Before The Verdict section of our blog if you’re interested.

Surprisingly, Nixon is simple. We’ll be analysing the Monument Mythos universe as created by MISTER MANTICORE. This includes The Absolute Nixonverse and the three seasons of Monument Mythos. We’ve also looked into Alex’s other works to see if anything comes up that might affect this matchup, we also looked into the Q and As by Alex himself, and the Dwight Comics character. The only content we won’t be using is the original Nixonverse, as The Absolute Nixonverse seems to be the intended way to experience this series, with new and cut content alike. Also to be clear, this is not meant to be analyzing the actual former President Richard Nixon, just this specific fictional version of him.

As for me? You should go into this blog with an open mind. This matchup has a history across multiple communities, and you might be feeling worried or frustrated about this matchup. Allow me to take you through an analogue horror journey.

Credit

This section is dedicated to every blog we use in our research, so people are credited properly. Please check out the original work below.

While these blogs were used for information gathering and sourcing, it’s important to stress that we did do our research, and I am happy to hand over research documents if they’re requested.

Background

Dr. Manhattan

“I'm tired of this Earth, these people. I'm tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives.”

Born to Jewish-American parents in 1929, Jonathan Osterman initially didn’t seem like he was destined for much. He had worked in nuclear physics for most of his life and even ended up with a lovely wife. But one fateful day, he’d end up trapped in a test chamber where his intrinsic field was removed, seemingly vaporising him. However, it turned out this experiment had not destroyed him, but it instead had turned him into a quantum being. As such, after reforming his body, he’d be reborn as the first superhuman in the world, which the government codenamed Doctor Manhattan.

Manhattan would become a major asset to the US Government, acting as a living nuclear deterrent throughout the Cold War and single handedly winning the Vietnam War within a couple of months. He was also able to personally guide science, causing many massive technological advances for humanity, and skilled people inspired by him became vigilantes themselves, leading to an influx of superheroes. But his newfound godhood also led to him viewing human life as insignificant, leading to his marriage dissolving and him growing disconnected from humanity as a whole.

This all came to a head when, as part of a plot orchestrated by fellow superhero Ozymandias, Manhattan ended up framed for causing cancer in his allies, leading to him isolating himself by going to Mars. He’d be brought back by Ozymandias’ ultimate plan: to cause a massive disaster that led to world peace being achieved out of fear of an alien attack. Upon seeing this was successful, he ultimately concluded that remaining on Earth would lead to nothing but strife from those in fear of him. So he’d ultimately leave the galaxy entirely to start a new life elsewhere.

How his story ends from there is different depending on who you ask. But there’s no question that, whether he wanted it or not, Dr Manhattan coming into existence was the most important event to humanity.

Richard Nixon

“Their sacrifice will make me realize that I can never risk stepping foot on Earth either. The closest I will ever be to your world is right here, on the moon.”

Some of you might be confused about who this figure is. Richard Nixon? Wasn’t he the US president at some point? Well, this all begins in another universe, the primary Monument Mythos universe. A creature known as the Horned Serpent had just begun to destroy reality. But, during its tyrannical destruction, a piece of the Horned Serpent broke off and left for another universe. This formless shape decided to become someone safe, strong, and who was long gone. This is how God became Richard Nixon.

Humanity would never accept Nixon for the all-powerful god he was, so he sent down three constructs to test humanity. The Knight, The Son, and The Queen. Unfortunately, all three weren’t accepted. The Son was used as a weapon, The Queen waged war on Earth, and The Knight became a faceless monster. It was on the Moon with Ed Dwight, an astronaut, where Nixon would explain it all before killing him.

Things got worse, as The Son had evolved into the Crescent King, before becoming another Horned Serpent. Nixon knew, for all of humanity's flaws, they did not deserve to go down like his own world. So, right before the Crescent King could become the Serpent, Nixon fictionalised the reality. He turned himself, the Crescent King, and his constructs into works of fiction. He sacrificed himself, but fixed reality.

Despite not being around for long, Nixon made his impact on the world through his actions. Despite being spawned from a creature of evil, he was a good man, who gave everything up.

Experience

Dr. Manhattan

Jonathan Osterman was already a brilliant scientist before becoming the blue god we all know, having earned a PhD in atomic physics from Princeton University. After that, he’d only grow more impressive, as he was able to create many advancements for humanity, leading to futuristic technology like electric cars being commonplace in 1985. Though he’s also adept at combat, as he was able to single handedly win the Vietnam War in a matter of months and has been acting as a hero for the government for decades. He should also be of comparable intelligence to Ozymandias, who not only is a prodigy that’s read through encyclopaedias and graduated from Harvard at a young age but has done Batman-level bullshit like accurately calculating every move a group of goons could do within a short time frame.

Richard Nixon

Just because Nixon is a static character in his story, doesn’t mean he lacks experience. He’s been shown to use his powers when push comes to shove, like blasting Ed Dwight, and fictionalising reality when the new Horned Serpent was about to be hatched.

Powers And Abilities

Dr. Manhattan

Physiology

 

Due to his intrinsic field’s removal, Manhattan possesses a more liberated body. As stated above, he doesn’t age, and what only matters is the perception of his body. It’s why he can grow to large sizes and survive without oxygen on other planets. He’s also been able to adjust his physical form, whether that be making his body a darker blue to show up on TVs or marking his head with a symbol of a hydrogen atom.

Non-Chronological Perception

Becoming a quantum being meant that Manhattan’s perception of time was forever changed. He’s able to experience his past, present, and future simultaneously, meaning he knows everything he will do ahead of time. He was able to use this to tell he’d lose his girlfriend to an affair upon first meeting Silk Spectre and was able to tell Silk Spectre would reveal she had a relationship with Nite Owl before she said it in that very conversation. However, this view of the future is not completely infallible, and he does see himself as chained to his knowledge of these events, not willing to do much to change their outcome.

Quantum Observance

Dr. Manhattan is a quantum observer, but what does this mean? You see, Dr. Manhattan manipulated a piece of paper to make him and the Silk Spectre team up instead of him and Rorschach. As you can see in the image, Manhattan had assumed that he had changed the future and created a new set of potentialities. Instead, both timelines became true, splintering reality. This becomes so potent that Manhattan can eventually see multiple different versions of himself from multiple different realities. As he describes it, “climbed the mountain high enough to see everything around me.” It became a point where every choice he ever made was splitting off into these realities.

He does cure this, but that requires some other ability explanations, and there’s no reason why he can’t cause this again.

Enhanced Senses

Beyond the above, he’s shown to have a high level of awareness of his surroundings, as he was aware Ozymandias was spying on him despite him not revealing himself, as well as see inside the heart of neutrons. It’s also been stated that he can sense life, has super hearing, and possesses telescopic and x-ray vision.  

Regeneration

There have been a few times when his body was destroyed, but Manhattan has shown the ability to regenerate it completely. While initially after the accident this took him a few weeks, when Ozymandias tried to recreate the accident to kill him, he was able to reform his body in just a matter of minutes at most. 

Size Manipulation

He’s been able to grow his body’s size to become massive, as well as easily shrink back down.

Matter Manipulation

Manhattan is capable of manipulating atomic structures to change matter however he wishes. He’s been stated to be able to adjust guns and bullets, personally created enough lithium to make electric cars replace gas-powered ones, made various glass objects from the surface of Mars, and he claimed he could make Indian soil fertile to end a famine in the area. He can also both create and destroy life.

Teleportation

Dubbed the “Manhattan Transfer” by Dreiberg, Manhattan has been able to forcibly teleport others and himself by moving space around him, whether that be sending Rorschach outside of a government facility, bringing Silk Spectre to Mars, or forcibly sending groups of people away. This has been shown to have the range to take him to other planets or even other galaxies. This can also be done to objects.

Intangibility

Manhattan has shown the ability to adjust his own body to let him phase through solid matter. He’s phased through attacks aimed at him, walked through walls, and put his arm inside machines to let him mess with them directly.

Explosion Creation

The most deadly part of his control over matter is his ability to just cause people to explode. He’s also able to create large explosions with just a gesture.

Time Travel

In Before Watchmen: Dr. Manhattan, Dr. Manhattan struggles to understand who he truly is within the universe. He’s able to send his consciousness to before his creation, while also stating that he’s sent it forward before. Although, since he technically doesn’t exist at this time, he’s only able to observe and cannot physically interact with the universe around him.

Duplication

Manhattan is capable of creating perfect duplicates of himself that are fully capable of independent thought. The clones possess the same capabilities of Manhattan himself, as one of them reconstructed a glass and replaced the chemicals within it.

Telekinesis

Manhattan can move objects with his mind, as seen when he dresses himself without touching the clothing. His control with this is precise enough to disassemble complex machines, such as his own tech, guns, and tanks.

Energy Beams

Utilizing his control over matter, Manhattan can fire beams of energy, which were hot enough to melt through a tank.

Barrier Creation

Manhattan can create barriers to protect himself and others from harm, as well as creating pockets of air to let them breathe in space.

Existence Erasure

To cure his Quantum observations, Dr. Manhattan begins to erase certain circumstances and objects from space and time.

Miscellaneous Powers

Richard Nixon

Alcatraz Matter Physiology

Richard Nixon isn’t Richard Nixon, he’s a part of the Horned Serpent that broke off and entered the Nixonverse, and is made of Alcatraz Matter, taking the form of Richard Nixon as a survival tactic, and could theoretically change form if needed.

What’s Alcatraz Matter? Well, it originated from another universe and took the form of what we know as the Alcatraz island and directly feeds on radiation to grow. Alcatraz Matter replicates and converts any other atom’s protons it comes in contact with into its own. Every Alcatraz atom can form thoughts, although ordinary people will keep their personalities and continue life with seemingly no difference.

But Nixon and his extensions were not ordinary people, and they were able to obtain full control of their anatomical structure allowing them to grow to large sizes, shape their bodies as they pleased, heal and survive horrific injuries no human could.

Creation

The most prominent power Nixon used in his verse was creation. He made The D-Day Knight, The Last Son of Alcatraz, and the Queen of the Lunarians. These three were extensions of Nixon, able to make their thoughts and choices.

Wonderland Abilities

After the Great Division, the few survivors managed to obtain enhancements brought upon by Wonderland’s merger. While most of humanity ended up being converted into Cornerfolk, Nixon was no human, and as such obtained great powers such as levitation, telekinesis, telepathy, firing lightning blasts, having all-knowing wisdom, and the Cornerfolk speciality of dimension-hopping.

Although a human character with the same Wonderland-originated abilities, Cthonaut A, showcased the capabilities of teleportation, time travel, debatably growing larger than the Earth, and possessed omniscience throughout the new timeline he persuaded the Angel to make.

Eviction from Reality

An ability the Queen of the Lunarians used, John was ‘evicted from reality’ by her. Although showcased in CORNERWORLD, eviction from reality results in the evicted turning into a Cornerfolk as seen with John Glenn and Rockefeller.

Fictionalization

Being left with no other choice, Nixon unleashed his most devastating attack to stop the rising influence of the Crescent King in the only way it could, fictionalizing everything. Fictionalization was a move that would render the Crescent King as fiction under spectators thus halting its cognitive growth as it would no longer be considered real. This event is more than meets the eye, as it also rendered alternate timelines of the Monument Mythos as fiction under the Dwight Comics brand.

Resistances

Dr. Manhattan

Temperature - He’s been fine in the vacuum of space and has stated he is incapable of feeling cold or warm.

Richard Nixon

Temperature - Survived in outer space as well as handling the scorching explosion of the Great Division.

Radiation - Being made of Alcatraz matter, not only does Nixon’s body consume radiation to grow, but is also filled to the brim with it.

Fate - Alcatraz atoms are directly stated to be following their path contrary to the universe and entities composed of them are referred to as the only beings with true free will. To add to this, the temporal abilities Nixon and company possess can be used as supporting evidence, like his mere presence producing a temporal distortion thus making his voice echo through backwards and forwards in time.

Support

Richard Nixon

The Last Son of Alcatraz

The Last Son of Alcatraz was a superhero with incredible powers, saving lives, and ending wars. He’s able to manipulate his size, cause explosions around Vietnam, and become the House in the Ocean after being brainwashed by the USA.

The Crescent King

The final form of The Last Son, The Crescent King is an all-powerful foe who has a strange cognitive existence within the world. The Last Son of Alcatraz’s Crescent King will eventually become the Horned Serpent.

The Queen of the Lunarians

Queen of the moon, the Lunarians are a species that she commands, with ships able to conduct brain surgery on civilians, and slowly remove human language over a short period. She herself can evict people from reality, the act of turning them into Cornerfolk and removing them from this realm.

The D-Day Knight

The savour of D-Day, the D-Day Knight is a standard ally within Monument Mythos, lacking many special abilities. He’s a physical powerhouse (see scaling) and managed to control his Alcatraz Matter. He was able to kill Alice Avenue by growing large and throwing her off a building, his head exploded into a black mass, and he performed the Alcatraz Checkmate, expanding Alcatraz Matter across the USA and ultimately destroying it.  

His main weakness is that his grief can take over. As seen when he killed Alice Avenue, he became an undefined monster.

Feats

Dr. Manhattan

Overall

  • Powerful asset of the US Government
  • Ended the Vietnam War in a couple months
  • Single Handedly led many technological advancements
  • The most powerful being in the Watchmen universe

Power

Durability

Speed

  • While this might seem like a weird feat, the story explicitly states he’s sending his consciousness back to these points in time.

Richard Nixon

Overall

  • Escaped apart of the Horned Serpent and went into the Nixonverse
  • Tested humanity by sending down three parts of him
  • Fictionalized reality after realising his mistakes  
  • Is not a crook

Power

  • Shot lightning at planets
  • Killed the planet-sized Horned Serpent (See before verdict)
  • Fictionalized various timelines

Durability

Speed

Lunarian Cloudship leaving the moon

  • Must’ve overcome the Moon’s escape velocity to send the Son and the Knight to Earth (Mach 6.99)

Scaling

Dr. Manhattan

The Watchmen

Dr Manhattan being the one superpowered individual in his setting means he should likely massively upscale anything done by his fellow vigilantes, who are all meant to be normal humans physically speaking.

  • Rorschach:
  • The Nite Owls:
  • Silk Spectre:
  • The Comedian:
  • Ozymandias:

Richard Nixon

The Holy Trinity

As the three creations of Nixon, they all should be far below him with one possible exception in the Crescent King who Nixon stated could overpower him with his rapidly rising influence.

  • The Last Son of Alcatraz:
  • The Queen of the Lunarians:
  • Survived a ray gun blast
  • The D-Day Knight:
  • The Crescent King:
  • Could’ve destroyed the Earth just like the Horned Serpent previously did
  • Was stated to have been able to expand past the Nixonverse into other universes

The Perfect Union

Given that he’s a part of the Horned Serpent, and supposed to be a top-tier of the verse, Nixon should upscale many of the notable characters within the verse, in particular the living statue of Freedom and the amalgamation of fused soldier, the Air Force One Angel; which alongside Everett, a mutated baby from Wonderland, fused into the Perfect Union allowing them to perform a true act of kindness to save their world and put their collective suffering to rest.

  • Freedom:
  • The Air Force One Angel:
  • Both beings were described to possess “infinite power” (Inapplicable)
  • The Perfect Union was able to:

The Horned Serpent (Debatable)

The Horned Serpent, the absolute end, George Washington. If these two parties can scale to each other is debatable, and will be brought up in the BTV

The House in the Ocean (Debatable)

(Fanart credit to SKINCUBE)

The House In The Ocean was an experimental series after MM ended which got deleted shortly after being published in 2022. However, the films were revitalized inside the Nixonverse as both an “urban legend” and “cover-up” for the Last Son escaping his brainwashing and becoming his childhood in Alaska as he turns into the Crescent King. It is mentioned that the events surrounding the tale are mixed between both fact and fiction and as such, are potentially real.

  • The Crescent King handles the water pressure from within the bottom of the ocean
  • The House in the Ocean shrugs off gunshots unscathed
  • Star messengers fly from orbit to the sea in the blink of an eye (Mach 38.5)
  • Crescent creatures cause the voidification of the world (Inapplicable)

Misc Entities

Regardless, there are a lot more entities which don’t quite reach the top of the power hierarchy, so Nixon should be vastly more capable than all of their feats.

  • Elon Musk was murdered in retaliation

Weaknesses

Dr. Manhattan

As almighty as Manhattan is presented as, he’s not perfect. Due to his powers being tied to the science of matter, they can be disrupted by things that aren’t encompassed by standard physics, like Tachyons, which interrupt his senses. Not only that but since his powers are energy, intense static can catch him off-guard and disable his future sight. At it’s worst, his powers can be forcibly absorbed and his human form may even die from the pressure of devices like advanced centrifuges.

Richard Nixon

For as powerful and as unstoppable as Nixon seems, he does have fatal flaws. Compared to his creational constructs, he’s not a fighter, preferring to stay back and observe the conflict. He’s an insanely flawed individual who messes up. Not only that, but Alcatraz Matter has a consistent weakness to fire.

Oh, the other Nixon also canonically lost to James Dean, so that’s why he’s here.  

Before The Verdict

Dr. Manhattan

Immeasurable Manhattan?

Well, of course, this is an argument. So, in his issues of Before Watchmen, Manhattan has a dilemma caused by the nature of his quantum observance. Basically, every choice Manhattan makes causes a new reality and timeline to form that follows these alternate paths. Manhattan experiences all of these at once. So in order to make one united reality where his decisions remain permanent and nuclear fallout doesn’t occur every single time, Manhattan erases all of these choices and by extension these universes. Very impressive feat, but what matters to the speed argument here is how he does it. Manhattan states that he is moving forwards and backwards in time simultaneously to erase these. So, obviously he would have to be moving infinitely fast to do this right? Well, not necessarily. Earlier in the comic, he states that he isn’t physically travelling to these realities and is instead able to extend his consciousness backwards and forwards in time, unable to physically interact with the world around him. So you could argue this is less a speed feat and more a showing of Manhattan’s omnipresence. He is subconsciously altering and travelling to these realities, not physically. It’s a bit esoteric, but to be safe, we’ll label this feat as a debatable high-end that likely shouldn’t affect this matchup’s debate much.

Where’s DC Manhattan?

You might be wondering, where is DC Manhattan? For those who’re unaware, Dr. Manhattan appears in DC Comics during the Doomsday Clock storyline, leaving his universe to interact with many DC heroes. He ends up in fights with many of the high-tier characters of the universe, during which he does stuff like break Guy Gardener's Lantern ring, incinerate Reverse Flash, and regenerate from a simultaneous attack done by multiple heralds. Not only that, he’s able to erase Superman and even affect the entire DC cosmology. To say that this would kill any semblance of debatability on this blog would be an understatement. But, we wouldn’t just limit Manhattan for the sake of a debate, that would be unfair. So we want to present all of our arguments for why we’re discluding DC beyond making the debate boring.

Alan Moore

The big elephant in the room with expansions to the Watchmen is that the original comic’s writer, Alan Moore, has rather famously disowned practically every addition to the series that he had no involvement in, and which is a stance he’s been very vocal about every time Watchmen related media comes out. From dislike of the idea of Watchmen as a big franchise to disillusionment with the comic’s perceived effect on the industry, the old man has become sick of this series. As he is the original creator of the story first and foremost, it is important to take his word into account here.

So why specifically single out Doomsday Clock and not the other adaptations used here? Well, for one thing, these adaptations are a lot more true to the original text, as they’re either building off its pre-established events or directly adapting them with minor differences, as opposed to Doomsday Clock, which did a lot more to add drastically different elements, especially to Manhattan as a character. But another point is that Watchmen is not solely Moore’s creation, as it was made in collaboration with artist Dave Gibbons. As a contrast to Moore, Gibbons has generally been a lot more accepting of others adding to the universe, as he approved of the film version, gave the writers of Before Watchmen his blessing, and even had some direct involvement on the HBO series. This is important, given Gibbons has also spoken against Doomsday Clock, as he’s stated he had no involvement with the project and the questioner was lucky to get more than a “no comment” when asked on it. As such, it’s pretty clear that Doomsday Clock should not be considered even a loosely canon addition to the series. This creative intention ties into the second and arguably bigger reason for us not including it, that being…

Thematic prevalence

The existence of this matchup is an enigma. Many see just the matchup name and find it absurd. And they’d be right. These are two series that heavily focus on surrealism and social commentary. Two godlike beings thrust upon this world by force, forced to reconcile with the ever-evolving harsh realities of our entire world. That’s what this match is all about, isn’t it? The loneliness and lack of willingness to act from these characters who can’t see humanity. Hell, Manhattan has met his own universe’s version of Nixon, paralleling the real-life version and a prominent factor of Manhattan’s guilt over using his unprecedented powers for war. Not just this match but Watchmen as a whole is about that. The harsh realities of our entire world and how people can find purpose in a violent, cruel blue Earth. Those solutions may never come because nothing ever ends, but people still go along and find purpose in whatever is out there in the universe. How does Manhattan interact with another godlike being searching for those answers, just like him? What does a story where Manhattan interacts with an alien being who is the exact opposite of him and tries to kill him after seeing all he’s done to change his world for the better and is in a multiversal plot with a whole other universe without the baggage of Watchmen’s just to erase and test them for his own cosmic purpose, and all the problems in the world just get unambiguously fixed add to this matchup? At the end of the day, we want to focus on the Watchmen mythos as it was intended and compare it to a series with similar themes. Talk about this matchup as it was intended.

Richard Nixon

Deleted Content?

Monument Mythos canon is all over the place due to the creator. Season 3 and Modern Day have been deleted, with only archives existing. This isn’t the first time content has been deleted, with some series even coming back.

To not put a damper on this blog, I’ll keep it brief. The creator of Monument Mythos struggles with their mental health, and will sometimes remove content because of this. We’ve still decided to take everything into account for the sake of this blog.

Monument Mythos Cosmology

We’re going to take a brief yet interesting deep dive into the Monument Mythos Cosmology.

From what we know, the universe should be the size of our regular universe, with there being at least a couple of different universes that we know. Perhaps the most notable is the difference between the John. D Rockefellers. One where he’s oil tycoonist and one where he’s the president.

Now, let’s talk about Wonderland. What is Wonderland? Well, Wonderland is an infinite plain of reality outside space and time, almost an ‘in-between’ space between reality. Yes, it’s infinite. There are multiple statements of it having “infinite trees.” and being “infinitely long.” with people able to walk in a straight line for years on end, and never hit an end. Not only that, but the visuality of Wonderland supports these infinite trees.

This is important because The Horned Serpent’s power is interlinked with Wonderland as seen before.

There is no House In The Ocean?

The House in The Ocean is an experimental series that ends with us being told that there is no House in The Ocean and that we are The House in The Ocean. Well, you see, The House in The Ocean is a collection of American Urban Legends (Check description) and is treated similarly in the verse. But, you see, there’s a disconnect between the Monument Mythos and The House in The Ocean. Footage of the House in The Ocean is used within Monument Mythos, but there’s a clear intent for The House in The Ocean to be real, as it’s a form for The Last Son.

TLDR: Some weird metaphysical crap that doesn’t matter here.

The Crescent King’s Cognitive Existence

Hailing from another work but being conjoined into the Nixonverse, the Crescent King is by far one of the most fascinating and powerful characters under this monumental umbrella. Although its most curious ability is its simple existence, as it is a being which can keep living through the cognition of others, or at least, that’s how his tale originally was, with crumbs of such extraordinary ability being referenced in the actual story.

So what exactly is going on?

Within the tale of the astronomer (the person seen above) his knowledge of the Crescent King made him into a container, the Crescent King testing his mental abilities to seemingly be a container.  This idea is backed up by The House in The Ocean, where by reading the text, we have all become a vessel for the Crescent King.

TLDR: The Crescent King can make people into vessels or, just by reading text, can lay dormant into your mind.

Horned Serpent Scaling

Let’s talk about Horned Serpent scaling. This is brought from the fact that the D-Day Knight, one of the constructs of Nixon, owns the skull of the Horned Serpent. So, Nixon killed the Horned Serpent, right? It’s not exactly 100% foolproof.

For one, it doesn’t exactly make narrative sense. Nixon was a part of the Horned Serpent, and it wouldn’t make sense for him to be stronger than the full parts of himself. Not only that but when the Crescent King was becoming the Horned Serpent, he had to fictionalise himself to stop the Crescent King from becoming the Horned Serpent, right?

Well, not exactly. You see, Nixon wanted to prevent the Horned Serpent from destroying the world, and his children had already done irreversible damage to society, such as The Queen removing speech. You could argue that Nixon could’ve chosen to destroy the Horned Serpent with his powers, but he only chose not to due to the collateral damage.

Secondly, we don’t know how the feat took place. Did Nixon overpower it? Use his hax? We don’t know. He did still kill the Horned Serpent, which might be enough for some people.

TLDR: It’s debatable and different members on this blog have different thoughts.

General Clarification

Relativistic Freedom

Admittedly has a lot of footing to stand on. The Angel’s blasts are compared to that of the most potent heat ray ever created as well as the parallel character representing the Angel in MONUMENTMYTHOLOGY, “Pyrasma”, firing a blast at lightspeed. So shouldn’t Freedom blocking the Angel’s lightspeed energy blast during their fight be relativistic in speed? Potentially, however, the real problem lies in the simulation of the fight, as we have no idea if the Maize animation captured exactly how the fight turned out. Humans in the series lack a full understanding of such anomalies as well as the very same simulation getting details regarding the outcome incorrect with the blast ultimately destroying Earth and the Angel too surviving the supposedly “mutual assured destruction” of the encounter. So we can’t be entirely sure if this simulation can be fully trusted even with such simple details as this.

Infinite Power Freedom and Angel

It’s hyperbolic and likely just referring to the potential and status of both Freedom and the Angel as eldritch beings which can be neither comprehended nor measured by humanity. If taken literally, would too be a tremendous outlier individually for both in a drastic power increase of Star level to Universal+.

Erasing Language

The Crescent King did not erase the language through his powers, instead, it was the Lunarian Cloudships which performed electrical brain surgery to forcefully eradicate it.

Verdict

Stats

As always, we’re going to break down stats uniquely. We’re going to cover non-debatable ends and then go into the more esoteric numbers for both.

As for power, both should be putting out A Universal worth of AP. Dr. Manhattan’s is pretty direct, he destroys the universes within the Before: Watchmen stories. Nixon should directly upscale both The Debate Demon and Monument Monster, who are lesser creatures within the hierarchy of the universe. As for speed, Nixon takes finite ends. Manhattan is lacking in his speed calculations, getting to Mach 80.65 off of moving his castle. Nixon should be upscaling Cthonaut A, getting to 86.32 Quadrillion c as he leaves the universe. Even if you wanted to define Manhattan’s movement of the universe when teleporting as a speed feat, that at best would only clock in at 315 Trillion c, which is still over 27 thousand times slower than Nixon. That means, at the lowest of interpretations, Nixon is blitzing.

But, now we have the esoteric ends. Manhattan has his argument for getting to immeasurable. As you read in the BTV (you did read the BTV, didn’t you?), we covered how Manhattan sent his consciousness forwards and backwards in time simultaneously to erase timelines. Some had potential issues with this feat due to the fact Manhattan isn’t present, and how he isn’t physically travelling to these realities. Well, you see dear reader, I would like to offer this panel. For those who haven’t clicked on the link, the first time Manhattan sends his physical consciousness back, he also disappears. This backs up that, to a certain extent, it’s a physical movement. Of course, not everyone is going to agree.

Nixon also has debatable speed ends. It comes from him being able to kill the Horned Serpent (Which also gets him a higher AP). The Horned Serpent is described as a higher dimension being by the Q and A, higher than at least our third mind of understanding. This would at least put Nixon on a Fourth-dimensional level of AP. As for speed, Wonderland is a place where time is irrelevant and is interlinked with the existence of the Horned Serpent (as established by the Q and As). Killing it would make Nixon’s speed irrelevant. Or, would it? You see, the main issue is that we don’t know how Nixon killed the Horned Serpent to get its skull. Was it AP? Hax? Perhaps he did not kill it and only created a skull for the Knight. It’s all esoteric with different interpretations.

Abilities

If you thought that was confusing, let’s explain their abilities. Both Manhattan and Nixon are overlapping in different departments. Both can survive in space, conjure life, grow to large sizes, flight, etc. Perhaps the main note is their regenerative and malleable existences. Both should possess the ability to come back from anything super fatal. Manhattan can regenerate from the accident that killed him in minutes, while Alcatraz Matter can heal from horrific attacks, like when the D-Day Knight removed his head, or Alcatraz regenerated from Robert Pattinson’s nuking. This means that most of their abilities aren’t going to kill each other. Energy Beams, Lightning, all of that from both parties won’t kill each other. While Alcatraz Matter is weak to intense heat, Nixon survived the great division, a planet explosion worth of heat. There’s not an easy way for Manhattan to expose that weakness.

As for other factors, while Nixon seemingly has better allies, they’re all stat demons who lack speed. The Knight and The Queen are getting speed-blitzed and a one-shot before they can do anything. As for the Last Son? That’s complicated. If he’s starting in his regular form, then Manhattan just blitzes. But, the Crescent King is complicated, due to its cognitive regeneration. There are different interpretations of how this cognitive regeneration works. If you buy it being instant, Manhattan has no counter to becoming a vessel. What does this mean? Well, for as long as Manhattan remembers the Crescent King, his head will expand into the Crescent King and fall off. Now, this doesn’t exactly kill Manhattan (since he can regenerate his form) but it does provide an unstoppable foe in which Manhattan cannot truly put down. Three issues. The Crescent King is lacking in any truly powerful stats, and can constantly be killed by Manhattan. Sure, The King will always come back, but Manhattan will always put him down. It’s a stalemate. Until, you know, you realise this matchup is Dr. Manhattan vs Richard Nixon and not Dr. Manhattan vs The Crescent King. As soon as Nixon is dead, the matchup is over, and Nixon lacks the cognitive regeneration that The Crescent King has. Thirdly, The Crescent King will eventually become the Horned Serpent, who should lack the cognitive regeneration of The Crescent King. Despite people knowing about the Horned Serpent, it never came back after the great division. Although this could be argued as a different version of the Horned Serpent, so this is debatable. What isn’t debatable is how Manhattan can duplicate himself, providing more allies, more tactical minds, and more bodies for Nixon to deal with.

This doesn’t mean Nixon is lacking advantages in this category. An important narrative weakness of Manhattan is tachyons. This disrupts Manhattan’s future vision on account of them moving back in time, and Nixon’s entire presence moves back and forth in time as stated by the Q and A. Nixon’s omniscience should be unaffected by Manhattan.

Now, that leads us to the big question. Can either kill each other? Let’s run through some possible wins. Manhattan has two. Either establishing the atomic structure of Alcatraz Matter, either changing them or preventing them from regenerating, and erasing Nixon from existence. Both of these are very possible. For one, Manhattan can see an atomic structure and should be able to understand that Nixon is made of a far different structure than he is, and just destroy or change him. While Alcatraz Matter can heal from dangerous wounds, it hasn’t shown atomic regeneration. Perhaps the most simple of wins is erasing Nixon from existence, something Manhattan can just do.

Nixon has one win-con, but I want to talk about one other that came up during our discussion. Could evicting Manhattan from reality destroy him? Uh, maybe? For those who don’t know, evicting you from reality removes you from our world and turns you into a Cornerfolk, these dimensional travel-based beings. Given that Manhattan can regenerate, and change his shape, becoming a Cornerfolk shouldn’t prevent him from coming back, and his teleportation and time travel should bring him back if it hits. It’s also debatable if this would power-nullify Manhattan, but likely not. This is debatable though. It is also important to note that Evicting from Reality seems to be a physical attack (something that The Queen did from her staff) so Manhattan could simply block it, phase through it, teleport away, or erase the blast from existence entirely to avoid it, which is even more likely given Nixon has never used this ability himself.

What Nixon has used is fictionalization. To stop the Crescent King/Horned Serpent,  Nixon rendered his existence and the Crescent King into fiction. To put it bluntly, this is a type of existence erasure, as you’re no longer real. Manhattan would have no counter to this. Although, the main issue is that this is Nixon’s suicide move. A last-ditch effort he used against the Crescent King, so if he’ll use this at all or if this would even technically give him the win is down to your digression.

Tertiary Factors

Keeping this short, Nixon hasn’t fought a foe in direct one-on-one combat. He (maybe) killed The Horned Serpent, fictionalized The Crescent King, and killed a regular human. Manhattan has been in way more combat encounters and wars, and is far more experienced in using his powers compared to the limited screen time of Nixon.

Conclusion

Dr. Manhattan

"'In the end?' Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends."

Advantages:

  • More experienced both in combat and in using his powers
  • Duplicates are far better than most of Nixon’s allies
  • Exploding Nixon’s body could prevent him from regenerating/ disrupting the atoms of the Alcatraz Matter
  • Nixon’s strongest attack requires him to actively commit suicide, something he might not instantly jump to
  • Existence Erasure is something Nixon can’t counter
  • Always kills The Crescent King no matter what…
  • Not a big fan of the government

Equal:

  • AP without Horned Serpent Scaling
  • Speed at equal ends
  • Unique existence means that physical harm is unlikely to put them down for good
  • Overlapping abilities such as size changing, life creation, etc

Disadvantages:

  • Weaker with Horned Serpent Scaling
  • Slower at finite ends
  • Fictionalization cannot be countered
  • Future vision is de-stabilized by Nixon’s presence
  • ….but The Crescent King will always come back
  • You would not believe how many glowing blue dick pics we had to look at
  • Cheated on his wife

Richard Nixon

“I am sorry, Mr Dwight. No human was ever meant to hear what I have said.”

Advantages:

  • Stronger with Horned Serpent Scaling
  • Speed at finite ends
  • Fictionalisation cannot be countered
  • His existence destabilises Manhattan’s future vision
  • The Crescent King always comes back…..
  • Is not a crook (in this timeline)

Equal:

  • Strength without Horned Serpent Scaling
  • Speed at equal ends
  • Overlapping abilities such as size changing, life creation, etc
  • Unique existence means that physical harm is unlikely to put them down for good

Disadvantages:

  • Way less experience using his powers and has little to no experience fighting
  • Duplicates of Manhattan are better than most of his allies
  • Cannot counter his body being destroyed/atoms being destabilised.
  • Cannot counter being erased from existence
  • The strongest attack requires Nixon to actively commit suicide, something he might not have instantly jumped to
  • …but The Crescent King doesn’t help him
  • Miku Binder Jefferson victim
  • Futurama Nixon clears

While the advantages may seem closer than you think, Manhattan should take it. AP has no matter in this battle since it requires hax to put the two down, and speed should be equal. Most of us buy the immeasurable arguments for Manhattan due to the evidence provided, with some members not buying the higher-speed arguments for Nixon, although this more than likely evens out.

After that, it just comes down to win-cons and who’s a better fighter, with Manhattan having far easier and safer win-cons that he’s far more likely to use than Nixon who’s relying on fictionalization, which also kills him.

I hope this verdict isn’t atomic to you readers, as this verdict opened the floodgates to how crooked the fight is in Manhattan’s favour, marveling having made it through the night.

The Winner is Doctor Manhattan.

Final Vote

Team Dr. Manhattan: [8] (Saul, Yerm, Ultra, Capejedi, Sirus, Stationsearcher, TheRealGnomeChompski, Fenic)

Team Richard Nixon: [0] (Lost a vote, AGAIN.)

Winner

One More Thing

Thank you all for reading a matchup that I’ve been wanting to write about for months. As for the next time?

There is no next time.

Let me explain. You see, I like working on other people's blogs as much as making blogs for myself, and I’ve committed myself to multiple projects from other people.

Including duo blogs with myself and some good friends in the community.

So, you won't be seeing posts from me for a little bit, but thank you for reading!

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2 comments:

  1. Oswald11 February 2025 at 15:28

    Love how the artist of watchmen is like to be never mentioned

    ReplyDelete
  2. Oswald11 February 2025 at 15:42

    I would not say the Zack snyder movie is close to accurate but sure

    ReplyDelete

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Dr. Manhattan VS Richard Nixon (Watchmen VS Monument Mythos)

“It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.” - George Washington Doctor Manhattan, the Blue Atomic God of The   ...