(Fenic)
(Mudonge)
“In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” - Friedrich Nietzsche
Arthur Fleck, Gotham’s own Joker.
Patrick Bateman, the American Psycho.
People walk among us who're insane, crazy, and dangerous. You wouldn't know who to stay away from, who's on the brink of committing a violent crime. Society either beats you down, or lifts you up, but it doesn't matter what it does, some people just want to watch the world burn. Will Arthur make Patrick ditch his facade and show his pyscho-tic side? Or will Patrick make Arthur take his last laugh. Come along to Saul's vs Blog as we find out who wins a DEATH BATTLE!!!!
Before We Go Anywhere
One of the reasons I’m doing this blog is the small media lists of both. Arthur is super simple. We’ll be looking at Joker and its sequel movie, Joker Folie a Deux. For Patrick Bateman, American Psycho doesn’t have a super-defined canon. We’ll be looking at the original American Psycho novel, the movie which popularized Patrick, and the musical. Yes, it has a musical. Lunar Park will be talked about later.
I would like to place a trigger warning for themes of both Suicide and Sexual Assault for this blog. I would recommend skipping this blog if these themes are likely to upset you. Also, gore warning.
Credit
Members on this blog wanted to be credited for their workloads on the blog so here you are!
Movie research (both sides): Saul
American Psycho novel research: Mudonge
American Psycho musical research: Fenic
Overlooking, giving general info, and overall big help: Yerm
Background
Arthur Fleck
Put a smile on your face and get through the world: that’s the life that Arthur Fleck lives through in Gotham City. Living with his mother Penny Fleck and working as a professional clown, Arthur suffers from a neurological condition that causes fits of uncontrollable laughter which creeps out people who interact with him and he is a constant victim of abuse from both his peers and the people of Gotham. Arthur also begins to pursue his crush, Sophie Dumond, one of his neighbors.
While performing as a clown for the children of Gotham, Arthur accidentally drops a handgun in front of them, which ends up getting him fired from his job. To make matters worse, while travelling home, Arthur is harassed and then attacked by three men. In a moment of pent up anger and frustration, he pulls out his pistol in self-defense and shoots them, killing all three.
Turns out those men were actually employees of Wayne Enterprises and the CEO mayoral candidate Thomas Wayne publicly condemns the deaths and whoever did them. Afterwards, Arthur finds out via a letter from his mother that he is Thomas’ son and later goes to a theatre to confront him. Thomas denies and rejects him, claiming Penny is not his real mother. In response, Arthur goes to Arkham State Hospital and reads Penny’s file, which reveals Thomas was telling the truth: Penny was a housekeeper for the Wayne family who adopted Arthur and had delusions of being in a relationship with Thomas. Arthur’s disorder was caused by trauma instilled by Penny’s physically and sexually abusive boyfriend. Filled with disbelief and rage, Arthur suffocates his adoptive mother the next day.
Arthur is invited by his talk show host idol Murray Franklin to his show, after Murray had previously humiliated Arthur and his stand-up performance. His relationship with Sophie having been all in his head and having murdered his former coworker Randall, Arthur believes he has nothing to lose and crafts the clown persona Joker for his appearance on Murray’s show. On his way to Murray’s studio, Arthur incites a riot after one of the detectives pursuing him accidentally kills one of the protesters sympathizing with Arthur. During the show, Arthur confesses to killing Wayne employees and talks about society’s negligence of less fortunate people like him. During his rant, he concludes that his former idol is just a disillusionment, not any different from the rest of the people Arthur sees as enemies. Thus, he changes his plans and murders Murray live on television, inciting even more riots all throughout the city. As Arthur is being driven away in a police car, rioters crash into it to free him. Arthur stands triumphant believing himself to have finally found his audience, but it doesn’t last. Soon after, Arthur is arrested once more and taken to Arkham Asylum.
While in Arkham Asylum, Arthur meets Harleen “Lee” Quinzel who admires and loves all of his stories, grew up on exactly the same street, and her father died. They’re the perfect couple, Lee starts a fire and leads Arthur outside of the prison, where they’re taken away. Arthur suffers the brunt of this escape attempt, thrown into solitary confinement. Lee bribes one of the guards to get in, having sex with Arthur and cementing their love. In the meantime, Arthur is meeting with his lawyer as they attempt to plea that Arthur has dissociative identity disorder and that the Joker personality is responsible for the crimes.
The trial doesn’t go well. Witness after Witness gets called trying to dismiss Arthur’s case, and his lawyer reveals that Lee is a liar. She didn’t murder anyone, she grew up rich, never burnt down anything and put herself into Arkham. Lee, however, wanted to be close to Arthur and made up those lies. Now she’s pregnant with his child, wanting a life for them. Arthur fully adopts his Joker persona, firing his lawyer, and dressing back up in his old outfit. The next two witnesses are brought in, Sophie Dumond and Gary Puddles. Gary, who witnessed Randall's murder, gives a heartfelt testimony that shakes Arthur to his core. He breaks down, giving a speech about how bad the Arkham guards are. In retaliation, they take him to the showers and sexually assault Arthur. Arthur, shaken by the incident, finally renounces The Joker and takes responsibility for his actions. He’s found guilty, a sentence that’ll lead him to death. But a bomb goes off outside the courthouse, killing multiple people, and letting Arthur go free. Where does he go? Back to Lee, who had stormed out when he renounced Joker. She rejects him for this, and Arthur lets himself go back to prison. Arthur’s life is brought to an end not long after, as an inmate approaches him while Arthur goes to see a visitor. He tells Arthur a joke, the punchline being multiple stabs to the abdomen. The prisoner finds this incredibly funny, carving a smile into his face, and laughing as Arthur’s life comes to an end.
That’s life.
Patrick Bateman
“...there is an idea of a Patrick Bateman, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.”
"I'm resourceful," Timothy Price, vice president of Pierce & Pierce is saying. "I'm creative," Marcus Halberstram, vice president of Pierce & Pierce is saying. "I'm young," Paul Allen, vice president of Pierce & Pierce is saying. "I'm a fucking evil psychopath," Patrick Bateman, vice president of Pierce & Pierce is saying.
Meet Patrick Bateman, 27-year-old Wall Street investment banker. He's educated, handsome, murderous, and fit. The textbook definition of a yuppie, It's a hedonistic lifestyle Patrick has, spending his days hitting up fancy restaurants, the gym, tanning salons, any sort of indulgence you can name to try filling the void in a world where, despite his high status, no one cares to understand who and what this man is: a serial killer who has been in the business since his junior year at Harvard.
In an attempt to make his superiority known, Bateman brandished his brand new business card: a bone-white beauty that was met with shining reception, but immediately outdone by his co-worker Paul Allen's card. This infuriated Patrick, who invited Allen back to his apartment for a lesson not just on the undertones of Huey Lewis and the News, but his true nature as an American psychopath, the last thing Paul would ever see would be an axe flying towards his face.
Enter Donald Kimball, a private investigator on the lookout for this mysterious, unidentified killer, who conducted an interview with the potential suspect while giving very mixed signals on whether he believed Patrick’s side of the story or not. This was the closest Patrick had ever come to tasting justice, and by God he didn’t like it. Little did he know, it would soon become his strongest desire in this meaningless existence of his. Several days later, after snorting some cocaine and going on a blind rampage in which several people were killed, Patrick decided enough was enough, calling his lawyer and confessing to every last crime he had ever committed.
And still, justice would elude him. The very next day, all traces of his crimes had been erased as if they never happened to begin with. This is what, despite Patrick’s insistence otherwise, his lawyer would tell him. His last-ditch effort to find some semblance of meaning and hope in a reality built on material possessions had meant nothing, and for the rest of his days, he would return to the endless cycle of self-indulgence and ignorance, never to escape.
…Is that Ivana Trump?
Experience
Arthur Fleck
Arthur’s initial rebellion against the elite seems to last about five days, from the aftermath of the subway killings to his arrest after the mass riots. So Arthur does not have much experience in murder. His 6 kills during those days were mostly gun shots, as well as stabbing Randall with scissors and smothering Penny with a pillow. He is absolutely relentless when he kills, but at the same time acts more out of instinct than anything. Although he didn’t fight them head on, Arthur was able to successfully run away from and divert the detectives pursuing him. The sequel does not add on to this. For those who are wondering, Arthur spends much of the time in prison, not fighting.
Patrick Bateman
If his own recounting of events is to be believed, Patrick has been killing for a long time, at least since his junior year at Harvard, and he has racked up a body count of one hundred since then. Patrick’s killings are often more than simply taking a knife to the throat, however: he knows how to draw out the process of death in the most horrific manner one could imagine, such as the time he tore a woman’s teeth up with a power drill, reached into her throat and yanked the veins out through her mouth before ripping her stomach open with his bare hands. Patrick’s degeneracy knows no bounds, as this all happened while the victim was still alive. In terms of combat experience, Patrick has rarely encountered anyone who has attempted to fight back against him, but he was able to wrestle against a police officer and shortly overpower him. Apart from that, Patrick has a consistent exercise schedule which he has likely kept for years, spending at least two hours at the gym per day (if he is not held up by anything else). He is extremely thorough in his daily routine and can perform up to two thousand ab crunches.
Equipment
Arthur Fleck
Smith & Wesson Chief’s Special
Given to him by Randall with the intent of self-defense, the Smith & Wesson Chief’s Special holds 6 bullets in its chamber. Or, does it? Arthur, while being attacked, fires eight bullets without sign of reloading.
Scissors
Perfect tools for snipping. Or, you know, stabbing into Randall’s eye and killing him.
Patrick Bateman
Axe
Good for chopping up that no-good Paul Allen.
Chainsaw
Taking naked and afraid to the next level, Patrick uses a chainsaw to cut people up. He uses this to slice a woman in half in the book. He also really wants to use it on his Mom in the musical.
Scissors
Some scissors that Patrick uses to cut and stab a body.
Knife
The standard melee weapon that lets you stab through.
Raincoat
To keep himself pristine, Patrick wears a Raincoat while murdering Paul.
Glock 17
Patrick uses this pistol in the movie to shoot someone in the face and blow up a car within the movie. (The Car thing is probably not real)
.357 Magnum
Patrick carries a .357 magnum that he can attach a silencer to, though it breaks when he pulls the trigger. He carries at least two extra clips on his person, as he reloads once in the excerpt seen above and again here.
Nail Gun
A weapon that Patrick almost uses to kill Gene, although he stops himself before he does. The book shows him using this. The Musical also has him crucify a woman to the wall with this, as well as multiple background characters.
Shotgun
Initially only seen within the movie, Patrick uses his shotgun in the musical to gun down people during a song. It's a pump action with 8 shells in the tube.
Steroids
In the musical, Patrick states that he’s on Steroids, which explains his strength. The book also mentions stomach cramps that might be caused by these.
Duct Tape
Can’t you read? Duct Tape he needs for taping something.
Sweet’n Low
A zero-calorie sweetener that Patrick tries (and fails) to get high off of.
Gloves
Gloves Patrick wears, what else can you say?
Butcher Knives and Hydrochloric Acid
Items that Patrick bought to torture people with, include Butcher Knives and Acid. He uses the acid on a woman’s body later on (NSFW).
Cocaine
More drugs that Patrick is filled with.
Switchblade
Patrick has a switchblade ready to stab people.
Steak Knife
Steak knife, yum.
Sleeping Bag
To hide bodies from people, Patrick would use sleeping bags.
Saw
Patrick uses a saw to hack off his victims’ limbs.
Ice Pick
While never used directly for murder, Patrick holds an icepick close to him.
Mace
Pepper spray Patrick uses to torture a woman.
Walkman and Headphones
For getting in the Sigma groove
Skills
Arthur Fleck
Marksmanship
Arthur is pretty good with his Smith & Wesson Chief’s Special. In his killings of the Wayne employees in the subway, Arthur gets a successful headshot and then two successful fatal body shots, before relentlessly pursuing the last survivor. The sequel does not add on to this.
Patrick Bateman
Marksmanship
Bateman is skilled at throwing knives, even landing a headshot with one. He’s also quite good with his shotgun, landing 8 shots in a row without missing. He even fired behind his back for two shots, and one under his legs. In the book, he’s able to shoot someone in the throat from a distance while spinning through a revolving door and shoot another guy between the eyes right after.
Fashion Knowledge
Patrick has encyclopedic knowledge of fashion, being able to internally name the fabric, design, and fashion brand someone's clothes came from, and can always tell whether someone’s clothes are designer-made or not. Even the homeless are not safe from his judgment.
Forms
Arthur Fleck
The Joker
After feeling he has nothing to lose and being fully consumed by his inner rage against the world, Arthur becomes The Joker. Arthur is way more confident when putting on this persona (at least initially), and it directly leads to him becoming the symbol of anarchy in Gotham. Arthur feels more expressive, likable, and like a star as The Joker. Arthur does later say this isn’t anything different to him, but it’s important to mention.
Patrick Bateman
None
(He has a face mask he can peel off I guess)
Feats
Arthur Fleck
Overall
Became a symbol of anarchy across Gotham City
Killed six people
(Unintentionally) Created his version of Batman
Met, fell in love with and almost went away with Harley
Took accountability for his actions
Died at what might be the real Joker’s hands
Power
(This scene is all in le head rip)
Durability
Has his wooden sign broken over his body before being brutally kicked
Survives being rammed into by an ambulance while in the back of a cop car
Constantly thrown around and beaten by the Arkham Asylum guards.
Arthur survives a Car Bomb going over behind him in the courtroom (0.0054 Tons of TNT)
People further away from the blast are damaged harder than Arthur.
This is genuinely the only thing Joker 2 adds.
Screw Joker 2
Speed
Patrick Bateman
Overall
Has a kill count of 100
Eluded justice despite confessing to all of his crimes
Rich, good-looking.
Didn’t die in American Psycho 2 that was a fever dream by all of us.
Power
Rips a woman's veins out of her throat before tearing her stomach open with his bare hands
Stabs a homeless man to death and stomps on his dog (Book version) + (Musical version)
Kills and decapitates Paul Allen with an axe (Book version) + (Musical version)
Leaps at a woman “jackal-like” and pounds her head against the wall until she goes unconscious
Bites a woman hard enough to stain the bed sheets in seconds (NSFW)
“Quite easily” overpowers and shoots a cop who’s trying to wrestle the magnum out of his hands
Durability
Speed
Weaknesses
Arthur Fleck
Arthur might be very determined, but he has his fair share of weaknesses. While he may be good with his gun…it’s the only thing he has in his arsenal (besides the one time he used scissors). So he does not have much in terms of options for a fight, especially considering his extremely scrawny frame making a physical brawl very unlikely to go in his favor. Plus, Arthur tends to act more on pure instinct and emotion than any sort of strategy, which can go poorly for him.
Patrick Bateman
Egotistical and materialistic, Patrick is an outcast among his peers. He has an extremely high opinion of himself and gets jealous of his peers having things he doesn’t. Not only that, he cannot blend in with people, he acts too differently. He also can’t suppress the urge to kill no matter how good his life is and struggles with his hallucinations. His ego can cause him to panic when faced with a real threat,
Before The Verdict
What is Real and Fake for Both?
One of the important discussions about this matchup is what’s real and fake for both characters. Given that some scenes don’t happen straight up, some readers may be confused.
Nearly everything within the story of Joker and Joker Folie A Deux happens, with a clearly defined line between reality and fiction. Arthur’s scenes with Sophie Dumond either didn't happen, or he did everything by himself. Apart from that, everything that happens in Joker is referenced within Joker Folie A Deux. This includes all six of the murders Arthur commits, his eventual arrest by the police, and his history with his mother. This includes flashbacks that show us direct scenes from Joker. The only other thing that’s strictly non-canon is the ending of Joker, where it seems Arthur Fleck kills the person interviewing him signified by the blood on his shoes. Not only is he in a different location than Arkham Asylum, Joker Folie A Deux confirms he’s killed five people. (For those who’re wondering, number six is Arthur’s mother, which isn’t revealed to the Jury until Arthur himself tells them). Those five are the three on the subway, Randall, and Murray Franklin. This means that this never happened.
As for Joker Folie A Deux, the movie makes sure to show us the differences between the fantastical world of The Joker and the brutal realism of Arthur Fleck. Most of the musical sequences within the film take place in Arthur’s head, with the only one we can likely give the benefit of the doubt to is his first song with Harley outside the burning Asylum. Apart from that, everything else seems to happen. Although theories do exist that he imagined people like Gary Puddles appearing at his trial, there’s no definitive proof. Not only that, but the courtroom explosion has to have happened to line up with Arthur’s death. Let me explain.
The person who kills Arthur is disgruntled with him not accepting himself as The Joker, so we know that Arthur would have to renounce his personality as The Joker for this to work. In that very scene, where he says he isn’t the Joker, the explosion takes place. Also, the explosion is what lets him go and see Harley.
Patrick on the other hand is also fairly straightforward. It’s safe to assume given the themes of the story that all of Patrick’s killings are real. As mentioned earlier, American Psycho ends with Patrick arriving at Paul’s apartment to clean up the bodies of Paul and the prostitutes, but it’s already cleared out with no blood or body in sight, and he’s told the apartment does not belong to Paul at all. He then goes to his job, and meets up with his lawyer Harold Carnes, who laughs off his confession and then bluntly tells him that he had dinner with Paul last night, making Patrick killing him impossible, right? Well, the more likely and fitting reality is that all of Patrick’s killings were real, but no one cared enough to notice them. A big theme of the story is how Patrick believes himself to be so uniquely gifted and different from everyone else, when in reality he’s seen as just blending in with his dull and average coworkers. Even Carnes mistook Patrick for someone else at first. He ends the story confused and angered by the fact he will never receive the punishment for his crimes, that they meant nothing whether they were real or fake. This is happening as his coworkers are talking about whether Ronald Reagan is a secret serial killer, which ties into the overarching theme of 80s capitalism…yeah you get the point. It just makes way more sense for him to be mistaken for someone else doing it or just not noticed at all due to the time period and nature of all three versions of American Psycho. The writers of the film also really did not want to explicitly have the entire story be a dream, so take that as you will.
American Psycho 2?
We’re not counting it. Not only is Bateman’s role reduced to a kill for the 12-year-old protagonist at the beginning of the film, it was originally a script entitled "The Girl Who Wouldn't Die", which was completely unrelated to American Psycho until they rebranded it to a sequel, changing the title and shoehorning in a Patrick cameo to capitalize on the first movie’s success. It has also been denounced by Bret Easton Ellis, author of the original novel.
Lunar Park?
We’re not counting it. Patrick Bateman in this book is specifically the fictional version of the character that exists within this ‘real world’ and gains godly and reality-warping-like powers as this version manipulates and tortures his creator. Think of him like New Nightmare Freddy Krueger.
Verdict
Team Fleck
In terms of physical, this is going to get weird. In terms of pure physicals, Arthur is losing a strength battle. While he can slam people against walls and punch clocks off, Patrick is incredibly well-trained and on drugs while Arthur is a skinny man who falls around. It doesn’t take an expert to tell you who’s stronger. In terms of speed, they should be around the same pace in movement, Arthur is surprisingly nimble and both are only human, but Arthur can move at an incredible pace while killing someone or outrun people in high-stake chases. It’s important to note that him running faster than two people chasing him came directly after he tanked that Car Bomb explosion, which is an incredible feat of endurance.
Durability is going to get complicated as it comes down to whether you’re accepting the Car Bomb feat. For those who skip to the verdict (Hi!) Arthur has his own 0.0054 Tons of TNT feat from surviving the blast. While he was temporarily dazed (Getting back up quick enough to leave the courtroom), he did survive, compared to others who died further away from the blast. This moment is incredibly important for Arthur, it’s what leads towards the end of the movie. Could it be an outlier? Maybe? But others survive the explosion. Most notable is Harvey Dent and the Judge, so it’s consistent within its verse. If you buy this being applicable, then Arthur stonewalls all of Patrick’s weaponry and physical feats. What’s important about this interpretation is that Arthur only needs one shot to win against Patrick, while Patrick would likely need more.
Let’s look at their equipment, Arthur isn’t taking this category by normal standards. His pistol doesn’t stack up to Patrick, he’s worse at melee ranges and has so much less. But perhaps that’s an advantage. You see, Patrick doesn’t usually have access to all of these weapons (especially in a neutral setting) and he can sometimes prepare and take great pleasure in his kills. Is he going to use the Chainsaw? His Axe? His Pistol? He usually uses ranged weapons in desperate situations, such as when he’s on the run from the police or during a dance sequence in a musical, he only pulls out his shotgun to kill dancers after he’s done a series of murders. Arthur doesn’t have that struggle, always being used to his pistol. Even in close-ranged situations, such as the people bullying him on the train. Patrick is likely going to fumble with the sheer amount of tools (Like trying to juggle between an Axe and Chainsaw) for Arthur to get the one shot he needs in to win.
Arthur is also unlikely to be tricked by people, he’s seen through personas before. Take Murray Franklin, someone Arthur idolized, who turned out to be bad. Patrick, the straight-white male who’s uber-rich won’t trick him. Patrick has tricked people who either know him or are in perilous situations (Children and Homeless people). Arthur is way more likely to pull out his weapon.
Perhaps the most important aspect of this debate is both characters' mindset. Patrick is far less likely to go for the kill before Arthur. He often toys with his victims beforehand, and while he absolutely can get serious, that's unlikely to be how he starts the fight here. Patrick specifically enjoys putting down the lower class people in society. When Patrick sees Arthur, a poor person, he’s likely to treat him in a similar way to the homeless person he killed. Of course, unlike Patrick’s victims, Arthur can and will fight back, and we’ve seen exactly what he does in situations like this before, such as the subway scene. Arthur doesn’t hold back, and in the face of a bully, he goes for his gun first thing, and that's all he needs to win here. You also have the fact that Patrick suffers from hallucinations, which could lead to him misremembering how events happen, giving Arthur even more of a chance to pull his pistol out and shoot him.
The way we see it, Arthur wins this more often than not. He’s only got one weapon to go to, something that’ll one-shot Patrick when hit. Arthur arguably stone-walls all of Patrick’s weapons or has incredible endurance even after taking a beating. He’s unlikely to get manipulated and see Patrick for the rich asshole he is, going for the kill first. In this debate, less means more.
The winner is Arthur Fleck, The Joker.
Team Bateman
Despite Patrick holding advantages in most areas, this match is more complex than "who has higher stats" because both characters are only human and could be killed with a well-placed bullet like any other man. What makes this matchup debatable is deciding who is more likely to go for a killing shot first or win a war of attrition. I think that Patrick Bateman should come out on top in both of these cases.
Firstly, Patrick takes strength by a considerable amount. Arthur's best feats are knocking a punch clock off a wall in a few hits and slamming Randall's head against a wall repeatedly while amped up on adrenaline. In comparison, Patrick, can do all of the following:
Perform two thousand ab crunches
Tear a woman's stomach open with his bare hands
Rip his shirt with his arm bicep
And the most obvious comparison: While Bateman is fit, muscular and on steroids, Fleck is malnourished, scrawny and doesn't get much exercise.
As for speed, you could make the argument that Arthur might have superior combat speed thanks to his feat of stabbing Randall before he could react. However, he needed the element of surprise for that, and it doesn't seem like anything that someone as athletic as Patrick couldn't replicate or even outdo given his own feats of catching up and tackling a biker, running from police cars, and somersaulting across an embankment. Not to mention Patrick did the same thing to the homeless guy and Paul.
Durability and endurance are the only stats I think Arthur could have an advantage in thanks to his explosion feat, but it's something Patrick could easily overcome. More on that in a second.
So, now that we've established stats, let's figure out who would go for the kill first. In a non-DB encounter, Arthur usually only starts fighting once someone has given him a reason to feel threatened, therefore it is likely that Patrick could catch him off-guard by playing nice and then shanking him when he doesn't expect it. This is a strategy Bateman regularly employs, first with the homeless guy, then with Paul, then with a small child whom he mercilessly stabs in the throat after luring in. In a lot of cases, Arthur won't know he's in danger until it's too late; the big reason Patrick's victims rarely fight back is because he doesn't give them the chance. It certainly doesn't help that Arthur canonically died against this trick. That, or, y’know, Patrick could just walk up and stab/shoot him as he tends to do to random people.
As for an encounter where both sides are blood-lusted, not only does Patrick have far more experience in killing, he also has better aim, being able to shoot a man in the throat while spinning through a revolving door, then shooting another between the eyes right after. On top of that, he carries two extra clips, meaning he could keep shooting long after Arthur runs out of ammo.
A close-range fight? Patrick wins again. Arthur's durability with the explosion is impressive, but it's clear he doesn't have any resistance to sharp or piercing objects (see: the ending of Joker 2), which Bateman has plenty of and is guaranteed to use like he always does. Couple this with better range--Arthur's scissors VS Patrick's chainsaw, knives, axe, pepper spray, etc.--it's unlikely that Arthur would even be able to land a hit on his opponent before taking an axe to the face. If he sees Arthur reach for his gun, he could tackle him and wrestle it out of his hands like he did to the cop who was about to shoot him (this was while Patrick had a limp, by the way). This is easily doable with his superior strength.
Arthur’s main wincon is to pull out his own gun before Patrick decides to get his, but apart from being able to simply tackle it away from Arthur, rendering him pretty much helpless at that point, there’s not much reason to say Patrick wouldn’t also go for his gun right away (he does it to a random lady on the street who hadn’t done anything to him, and to a saxophonist who posed absolutely no threat to him–he’s more incentivized to do it in a DB scenario where he knows his opponent wants to kill him).
Another argument is that Patrick would waste time fumbling with his vast arsenal, but generally his magnum and switchblade are the only weapons he carries on his person, the rest of them being extras he has lying around his house (which he doesn’t need to kill Arthur). He has canonically never had the issue of having to cycle through too many weapons to find the right one. When he wants to kill someone, he either pulls out his switchblade or gun (just as many as his opponent carries) and simply does it.
The way I see it, it's certainly possible that Arthur could pull off a win under the right circumstances, but more often than not, Patrick's experience, superior physique, marksmanship, and ruthlessness ensures that Joker's victory simply... is not... there.
The winner is Patrick Bateman.
Summary
Arthur Fleck
“When you bring me out, can you introduce me as Joker?”
Advantages:
Higher durability/endurance
Stonewalls all of Patrick’s weapons (Debatable)
More likely to go for a gun
Gun will always one-shot Patrick
Unlikely to fall for Patrick’s tricks
Joaquin Phoenix
Equal:
Movement speed
Disadvantages:
Smaller arsenal.
Worse Melee range
Less ammunition
Worse marksmanship
Less experienced.
Weaker
Joker 2
Patrick Bateman
Advantages:
Larger arsenal…
Better melee range
Knives and bullets could bypass Arthur’s durability (Debatable)
More ammunition
Better marksmanship
Stronger
More experienced
Better musical
Is the boy next door, isn’t that right Patrick?
Is neighbors with Tom Hanks
He’s literally me (I’m going as him for Halloween)
Christian Bale
Equal:
Movement speed
Disadvantages:
…but a majority of it is only melee weaponry
One good shot will always kill him.
Fewer showings of durability
More prone to hallucinations
His fans have zero media literacy
American Psycho 2
Final Vote
Team Arthur Fleck [3] Saul, Fenic, Yerm
Team Patrick Bateman: [1] Mudonge
Winner
One More Thing
If the guys saw the last blog, I didn’t feel amazing due to the projects of my other blogs. Since then, I’ve had time to reflect and consider what I want to do.
Find out what’s happening here.
What happened to Makima vs Manchester Black? Is it still not finished?
ReplyDeleteI didn't know american psycho 2 and joker 2 were based like that lmao
ReplyDeleteYou do what you want to do, Saul.
ReplyDeleteAnd you take as much time as you need.