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“Now all I want is to escape the reality”-Ztar
Spamton, the Big Shot who wants to get to heaven from Deltarune.
Dr Coomer, The broken NPC from Half Life: But the AI is Self Aware.
What would you do if one day, you learned that your entire life, no, everything was all a lie? That the only world you know is nothing but a false reality, one that is dwarfed by grander existence. Could you live with that knowledge?, the idea that you're so small in the grand scheme of things. That type of information could make people desperate, or even insane. When it comes to these two combatants, it did a lot of both. Which video game escapist will come out on top?, come along to Saul’s VS blog to find out who would win a DEATH BATTLE!!!!
Before We Go Anywhere
Spamton and Dr. Coomer have incredibly small media lists. For Spamton, it’s just the main Deltarune game. It should be noted that since Undertale and Deltarune are likely alternative universes, many ability explanations will come from Undertale, though there will be no scaling between the two. For Dr. Coomer, we’re covering the series, VODs, and Q&As.
Background
Spamton
“THAT’S RIGHT!!! NOW’S YOUR CHANCE TO BE A [[BIG SHOT]].”
In the world of Deltarune, you can find various dark fountains that lead to an entire new world. One of these worlds, cyberworld, is home to a very peculiar individual, Spamton. G. Spamton. He may not look like much at first, but this salesman is more than meets the eye. Once upon a time, Spamton was an ordinary addison, a living spam email, just trying to make a living. Spamton always dreamed high, and always believed that some day he’d finally be a BIG SHOT. One day however, he was contacted by a mysterious stranger via telephone, who promised him his dreams. Suddenly, Spamton became massively successful, rising from a nobody to the most famous darkner around. His success brought him great fortune and even a room in the queen's mansion. Spamton would become extremely egotistical, to the point his former Addisons became jealous and stopped hanging out with him. Besides that, everything seemed great, until one day it all came crashing down. The stranger responsible for Spamtons success vanished, and his sales immediately dropped. Spamton desperately tried everything to save himself, including praying to a mysterious artefact in the basement, but it led to nothing. He was evicted from the Mansion and became homeless, living out his days in a dumpster. Everything seemed hopeless, until one day Spamton met a lighter named Kris. After an aggressive sales pitch, Spamton convinced Kris to help him with his plan, to upload his data to the mysterious basement artefact. With this he could finally be a big shot again. After the upload, Spamton gained a new form, Spamton NEO. He was bigger and better than ever, but something was wrong, he was still held back on his strings. Frustrated, He turned on Kris, coming up with a new plan to ascend, taking Kris’s soul. Spamton fought Kris and their friends with immense power, but Kris eventually came out on top. In one route Kris damages Spamton to the point he starts smoking. Spamton then attempts to enter his EX form, only to blow himself up. In another route Kris decides to beat Spamton by cutting his strings. When it came down to the last string, Spamton suddenly got excited, he was finally going to be free. Then the string was cut, and he fell to the floor lifeless. Regardless of the route, Spamton returned to his normal form now calm and lamenting, having failed to free himself. However, he realised that Kris and their friends were also on strings, and decided to help by turning into a useful item. Spamton couldn’t free himself, but maybe he could free someone else.
There is another route in Deltarune however, where Spamton’s story ends differently. When Kris begins to manipulate their friend Noelle into freezing every darkner, Spamton would assist them by counting the enemies and giving Kris the thorn ring. Eventually, the chaos of snowgrave allows Spamton to sneak into the manor and take it over, acquiring his NEO form in the process. However, Kris then goes to close the dark fountain, threatening to destroy the entire world. Feeling betrayed, Spamton appears at the fountain to stop Kris. He fights Kris 1 on 1, being seemingly unbeatable due to his defence. However, Kris eventually calls for Noelles help, who then proceeds to defeat Spamton in one iceshock. It seems there's no universe in which Spamton can truly win.
Dr. Coomer
(Render by Brims art world on Twitter)
One day, a streamer named Wayne decided to, what else, stream a new version of the hit-classic first-person shooter, Half-Life. Apparently, Valve had released a new VR port with all-new AI technology, so advanced that it was even self-aware, where he could fully immerse himself as Gordon Freeman. But what Wayne thought would be just a fun and sweet trip through a beloved game soon turned into a chaotic, mind-numbing journey through Black Mesa, with his companions Tommy, Bubby, Benry (sort of), and of course, Dr. Coomer.
Not much is known of Dr. Coomer's earlier life. When he was young, he was inspired by the SNES game “Super Punch Out!” and wished to be a boxer when he grew up, but sadly, his blasted ex-wife forced him to be a scientist instead, joining Black Mesa. Of course, good dreams don't die out, and he would found the Black Mesa underground boxing ring to live out his fantasy. And somehow in-between all this, he had the time to create clones of himself cause why not?
While things were relatively normal… ok well as normal as you can get in Black Mesa, it all changed when he met Gordon Freeman, and he would be pulled into a quest to stop the alien invasion caused by the resonance cascade. Despite his bizarre demeanour, always feeling like he was out-of-touch with reality, and despite his frequent impulsion to explain convoluted game mechanics to Gordon, Coomer proved himself to be an irreplaceable member of the team, punching his way through everything and everyone that stood in their way. Whether it be extra-dimensional aliens, the entire US Military, friends, foes, twists, turns, betrayals… And yet through it all, one realisation began to set in.
None of this is real, is it?
It didn't take a genius of his intellect to figure it out, really. His awareness of integral game mechanics yet not knowing why, the sheer absurdity of the events transpiring around him, the behaviour of his non-aware NPC brethren, the literal nothingness that surrounded Black Mesa, and of course, the sheer pain he felt every time Gordon went to sleep, feeling himself being pulled apart atom by atom. He knew none of this was real, and he knew that, somehow, Gordon was the key to escaping.
After being betrayed by his other companions, Coomer's clones assaulted Gordon and attempted to enter his body, using it as a way to escape their manufactured hell and find a way into the world in his dreams: reality. Ultimately, they were defeated, and the real Coomer re-assured his friends that, despite everything, it was still him, their good friend Dr. Coomer.
And after defeating the revealed-to-be deity Benry, stopping the alien invasion he created and saving the world, they all held one final moment together, celebrating their friend's birthday in, what else, a Chuck E Cheese.
Finally, once the game was set, and Gordon was ready to move on, Coomer managed to leave him one final message, revealing his uncertainty on what will happen to them once Gordon leaves the game for good, but assuring him that they will never forget him, and hopefully, he won't forget them either.
Experience and Skill
Spamton
Spamton has only been in a few fights (depending on what route you choose). First he gives a very aggressive sales pitch to Kris. Then, after acquiring his Neo Form, he either battles Kris, Susie, and Ralsei, or just Kris alone. He’s a pretty average salesman apart from that, although he was highly successful before he went insane, but it's likely this was due to the deal he made rather than his own individual skill.
Dr. Coomer
Dr. Coomer is certainly no slouch when it comes to fisticuffs. Dr. Coomer is a high-ranking scientist within Black Mesa, obtaining a PhD, and his adventure with the Science Team involved almost non-stop fighting for, at minimum, 3 days straight. He’s knowledgeable in areas like chairs and trees, has displayed an understanding of French, was taught military language from his ex-girlfriend, trained for 20 years in waste disposal, and he’s been described as being around 50 years older than Tommy, who is 36, giving him plenty of experience. He even has hand-to-hand knowledge due to the fact that he wanted to be a boxer before his wife made him go into the science field, running the underground boxing ring of Black Mesa for years. Besides that, he’s showcased impressive knowledge of firearms, capable of wielding most with ease after getting his hands on them, and he and the scientists are smart enough to deactivate turrets. In the commentary for Act 3, Coomer is described as being “older than time itself,” although this is likely hyperbole.
Equipment
Spamton
Telephone
In case anyone wants to do business, Spamton carries a phone around.
Pipis
Described as an “invasive species” of freshwater clams, pipis are non-sentient but apparently capable of asexual reproduction. When touched, they will explode into many small Spamton faces that damages foes on contact. Additionally, he can use them to recover his HP.
Dr. Coomer
Passport
Like everyone in Black Mesa, Dr. Coomer has a passport that lets him wander around the facility. Passports can take on the appearance of guns, such as the Half-Life Gravity Gun and the Combine Pulse Rifle (although this is only implied).
Weather Channel Flashlights
Crank-activated flashlights that are provided to all members of Black Mesa.
Black Mesa Official Silly Straw
Extremely necessary for Black Mesa operations.
Crowbar
Mr. Freeman isn’t the only one with a crowbar, Dr. Coomer has one as well.
Grenades
One notable issue that Coomer had was his almost psychological need to spam grenades at any moment. The Science Team also gains access to sticky frag grenades.
Revolver
A simple pistol that Dr. Coomer carries around.
Crossbow
A crossbow that fires a sticky explosive shot if it makes contact.
Machine Gun
A machine gun that Coomer steals from the body of a HECU unit.
Bazooka
Coomer is always prepared with this RPG. It shoots tracking missiles that can blow a helicopter out of the sky.
The Big One
A behemoth of a gun capable of shredding through most foes… if he can hit them. It has so much recoil it’s almost impossible to aim, making it highly impractical.
Barnacle Grappling Hook ROPES!!!
If you ever need to get around quickly, Dr. Coomer possesses the Barnacle Grappling Hook, which he uses to get over big pits.
Soda
Soda cans straight from Black Mesa’s very own soda machines. Consuming these can let you “see things faster”... Whatever that means.
Saxophone
He’s cranking this.
Powers And Abilities
Spamton
Soul Manipulation
Like all Characters in Deltarune, Spamton possesses the ability to attack your soul directly. According to Raisei, the soul is the direct culmination of your being, and moving it is implied to represent your character's real movement.
Energy Projection
All good salesmen have energy blasts and lasers. It's just part of the trade.
Text Manipulation
Spamton can yap so hard he turns his words into projectile attacks.
Tech Manipulation
Spamton can upload himself into disks, temporarily becoming data. If he is connected to another machine in this state, he can take over it.
Air Manipulation
Spamton can shoot gusts of wind.
Sound Manipulation
Spamton is a loud and proud business boy who can use sound to attack enemies.
Electricity Manipulation
Spamton can fill his body full of sweet electricity.
Size Manipulation
Self-explanatory. He can become large enough to eclipse the main cast.
Body Control
Spamton can control his body in many ways, like launching his heart to attack foes, or even turning his hands into phones.
Money Manipulation
Yes, this is real. Due to Spamton’s obsession with [Kromer], as well as the fact he canonically eats it, he has powers capable of acquiring more. This takes the form of his Money Vacuum attack (which is based off of whales), in which he sucks up all of the money from his opponent. Considering the generic money symbols, as well as the fact Spamton lives inside a form of the global internet, It's reasonable to assume he could do this to any form of currency.
Mini-Clones
Spamton can create miniature versions of himself, fully capable of operating on their own and attacking.
“Flight”
Spamton Neo can fly…well sort of. He’s able to ascend and move around via his strings being lifted.
Healing
Spamton can summon a fairy version of himself to heal someone else. He can also heal himself with Pipis.
Rage
If you even dare to abuse frame-perfect game mechanics with the Big Shot mode, Spamton will become enraged, increasing his damage.
Reality Warping
Very interestingly, Spamton possesses the ability to warp reality, in his shop, he casually warps the background and changes the prices of his products. When he gets to his Neo form, his reality bending becomes far more potent, as he is able to create an entire highly detailed city in the background, as well as warp the Queen's mansion in the snowgrave route.
Fourth Wall Awareness
Spamton knows a bit more going on than most, considering his main motivation is to “cut his strings” and be free from the game, additionally, he mentions how Kris is tied to strings like himself, referring to them being controlled by the player.
Bluelight Special
A last resort Spamton can pull when he's physically overwhelmed. In exchange for reduced attack, Spamton gains absurd durability, making it so that characters who could previously do significant damage to him now can't lay a scratch.
Dr. Coomer
Cybernetics
This Dr. is barely even human, his body is made up of Cybernetics. With his Super Legs, he’s stated to be able to leap over mountaintops, sending himself outside the map (although these do need to recharge), his PowerLungs let him breathe underwater for extended periods of time, and the cybernetics department replaced his colon, allowing him to gulp down still water without fear of infection.
Coomer also has access to “Extendo-Arms” which he uses to instantly pull people to him such as when he saved Gordon from falling off a cliff, and he can use them to pull people or things through walls. Coomer also claims that he *is* the HEV suit which is why he can utilise HEV suit stations to heal. To top it all off, Coomer’s cybernetics also lets him detect “ropes” in a 10-meter radius.
“Shockwave Fist”
As confirmed in the commentary for Act 3, Coomer possesses a secret technique called the “Shockwave Fist” that allows him to transfer force through a physical object to “break anything”. He used this to shatter a frame around a glass dome.
Black Mesa Sweet Voice
The Black Mesa Sweet Voice is a stream of multicoloured balls/orbs that are emitted from the mouth of the user. Most members of the science team have access to this ability, Dr. Coomer included. The Black Mesa Sweet Voice has access to multiple different abilities:
Emotional Reading/Projection: The most common use of the Sweet Voice is its ability to project the multicoloured orbs which can be interpreted as different emotions by members of the science team, although it’s mostly Tommy who’s able to understand it. Some examples of this include the colour teal meaning “needs meal” and green meaning “he’s not mean!”
Mind/Empathic Manipulation: Sweet Voice has been used to instantly calm down a raging Gordon Freeman and force him to hand over his passport.
Sound Manipulation: Benry has showcased the ability to blow out a man’s eardrums with the Sweet Voice, instantly killing him. (VOLUME WARNING)
Cocooning: Benry, after lighting an innocent man on fire, was shown using his sweet voice to cocoon their corpse. Although he is seemingly not successful. This ability returns in the final fight where Coomer is hit by skeletons using the Sweet Voice and is unable to move.
Healing/Resurrection: After an untimely Coomer death, Benry used a green healing beam to resurrect him as confirmed by Tommy.
Disintegration: The strongest application of the Sweet Voice is its ability to almost instantaneously disintegrate material including people. The victim is set on fire and after a few seconds completely evaporated.
PlayCoinsTM
As is his nature as a game AI, Coomer is programmed with the knowledge of PlayCoinsTM, an in-game currency that allows the player to cheat the game if they wish. Coomer has a total of 298 of them.
While the full applications are unknown, PlayCoinsTM have been shown to teleport the entire crew through tedious parts of the game, purge all toxins from someone’s body, create a portal that transported Gordon across time and dimensions back to the main timeline, and could activate the SuperPlayerTM Feature during the final boss fight (see Before the Verdict). They can also be used to increase your social link with the science team.
Clones
Dr. Coomer can summon clones to help him in fights. They seem to disorientate and attack the foe, they potentially have less durability than himself, able to be easily gunned down by Tommy. Dr. Coomer can unleash the power of 300 of his clones, having all the memories of what happened to them, like knowing that Tommy gunned them down and can even feel everything the clones feel too. These clones are capable of flying and even exploding. Some clones also had syringes (presumably filled with heroin) according to the commentary.
Statistics Amplification
With every Coomer Clone that dies, Dr. Coomer only grows in strength.
Fourth Wall Manipulation
After accidentally launching himself out of the map, Dr. Coomer gained the knowledge that he was in a game. He states that when Gordon switches off the game, it feels like his body is tearing itself apart atom by atom, he’s also able to communicate with the person outside of the game.
Mind Manipulation/Possession
Dr. Coomer has displayed the ability to manipulate people's minds. He can speak with them telepathically, which happens to Gordon in ACT 3. Coomer also states that he can climb inside of Gordon’s arm and puppeteer his body.
Dream Manipulation
He could show up inside Gordon’s dream at the start of ACT 4, and his entire original plan was to enter the world inside Gordon’s dreams to escape Black Mesa.
Memory Manipulation
Coomer is able to access the memories of his deceased “best friends”... until necrosis sets in. He was able to remember an entire childhood.
Resurrection
Tommy states that he killed Dr. Coomer, only for him to appear a few seconds later. This is a very consistent ability, with Coomer coming back from large falls without explanation, surviving absurd amounts of blood loss like it’s nothing, and even touching green goop, which he’s allergic to, can’t keep him down. Gordon theorizes that this is due to a piece of cybernetics that switches his brain back on if it ever shuts off, which is confirmed in the commentary.
Regeneration
For as durable as his body is, Coomer can regenerate from wounds over an extended period of time. Stuff like giant gashes in his head will slowly heal.
Enhanced Senses/Extrasensory Perception
He can sense “ropes” in a 10-meter radius and somehow sensed a change in Benry's DNA.
Non-Physical Interaction
Coomer punched out a hologram of himself. Can hit and interact with Benry and his skeletons, who can phase through objects.
Teleportation
Dr. Coomer can just teleport without any issue.
Flight
Coomer has been shown being able to fly once the SuperPlayerTM Feature is activated. Many Coomer clones are also shown being able to fly.
Shapeshifting
Coomer turned his arm into an RPG, so I guess he doesn't need to carry it around.
Acausality
A past/alternate version of Coomer was able to remember the memories of the present Coomer, implying some form of acausality.
Forms
Spamton
Neo
After successfully manipulating Kris, Spamton sneaked into the Queen's basement and successfully gained access to a powerful machine that was “the embodiment of a Lightner's dream,” granting him the power to shape reality and reclaim his dream of being a Big Shot that had been taken from him.
This form massively boosts his physical capabilities and general powers.
Big Shot
![It's The Spamton NEO Battle, But [SOMETHING] Is R/Deltarune, 41% OFF](https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXeK3AI4TrRRYquUV0ruH0ZXJ7E8sFwKy1rFKHUhQGW89mxejR_qt6zSZ5NEouUIrUNodBD8LSve74aOqGdif6HtbxQ4njDZ4XFzmdv9cJZBIE4TqyViROjGUY0Uz0mWTIRrwHs_1shVPSx98Ip7au_tsMuf?key=q2n5QfhVBVuj2hJXzhadPQ)
For his ultimate attack, Spamton turns absolutely massive, now being able to use an even stronger vacuum and fire massive energy blasts.
Items
After his defeat, Spamton transforms into one of two items, the Dealmaker or the PuppetScarf. In this form he is still very capable of talking and moving on his own.
Marketable Plushie
Get real
Dr. Coomer
SuperPlayerTM Feature
Upon being given all his PlayCoinsTM by Gordon, Coomer was given permission to use the forbidden science, activating the SuperPlayerTM Feature to beat the shit out of Zen Benry (see Before the Verdict)
Resistances
Spamton
Transmutation: Can turn into an inanimate object and back.
Electricity Manipulation: He can flood his body with electricity and be fine.
Biological Manipulation: Being a technological being, Spamton is naturally unaffected to most biological effects.
Soul Manipulation: It's heavily implied that Spamton lacks a soul all together, which is why he wishes to steal Kris’ soul.
Dr. Coomer
Electricity Manipulation: Unaffected by standing on electrified water, or drinking electrified water.
Time Manipulation: Can walk through Peeper Puppy attacks, which are stated to cause an “atemporal reaction” that froze Bubby in the air.
Pain Manipulation: He’s been shown to be unaffected by every cell in his body being in excruciating pain, could feel himself being ripped apart atom by atom every time the game closed and was ok, and he’s just straight-up stated he doesn’t feel pain.
Extreme Heat/Extreme Cold: Can chill in a furnace like it’s nothing, has been set on fire quite a few times, has tanked lasers hot enough to melt metal with ease, and can walk through a freezer designed to flash-freeze meat. Is implied to have reached space and survived.
Radiation: Not only does he frequently tank beams of concentrated radiation, but he can walk in radioactive waste with basically 0 repercussions (unless he’s allergic to it) and he’s implied to have reached space, surviving exposure to cosmic radiation.
Vaporisation: Tanks hits from the Alt-Fire, which can vaporise others instantly.
Feats
Spamton
Overall
Was once one of the most famous Darkners ever.
Successfully infiltrated the Queen's mansion (with help).
Acquired the Neo form and almost achieved freedom.
Fully took over the Queen’s mansion in Snowgrave.
Fought evenly with the Deltarune trio.
Outmatched Kris in the Snowgrave route.
Power
Punched a dumpster so hard it shook (shown above).
Could harm the Deltarune trio.
His BIG SHOT explosion covered the entire screen (0.075 Tons of TNT)
Spamton NEO is pretty big, innit? (289,361.3 kg)
Durability
Could tank hits from the Deltarune trio.
Shook off Kris’ attacks with ease after using his Bluelight Special.
Speed
Can fight and react to attacks from the Deltarune trio.
Dr. Coomer
Overall
Escaped Black Mesa, like, three times.
Together with Gordon, Tommy, and Bubby, wiped out the entire US Military.
Destroyed Wikipedia, the Online Encyclopedia that anyone can edit.
Defeated Benry and stopped the invasion from the Zen aliens.
Joined the most baller Chuck E Cheese birthday party at the end of the world.
Power
Physically overpowers some headcrabs.
Notable for his physical capabilities compared to the rest of the group.
His RPG blew up a helicopter (0.029 Tons of TNT)
Durability
Dangerous explosions are no threat to him. This is a pretty consistent thing (48-108 Kilojoules)
Shocked by a creature and doesn’t react.
Shot multiple times by turrets, falls down a large pit, and is fine.
Falls down a large pit. When Gordon fell down this pit, he injured uhis legs.
Survives the Cascade Resonance along with the rest of the science team.
Speed
A fast runner throughout the series.
Kept up with a moving train.
Frequently pulls Gordon to him with his Extendo-Arms (Mach 1.18)
(Mach 2.2)
Dr. Coomer launches himself into space, before suddenly reappearing (Mach 406.13)
Moved in-tandem with Sunkist’s lasers (69.81% SoL)
Scaling
Spamton
Deltarune Trio & Friends
Naturally, Spamton was a tough boss fight for the Deltarune Trio to overcome, meaning he’d likely scale to them, due to him being able to harm and tank multiple blows from them. He should also be comparable to characters like Berdly and Lancer who the trio frequently fight.
Susie moves so fast she could block Lancer’s ears before sound reached it (Mach 0.19)
Could react to Giga-Queen’s attacks (Mach 3.06)
Kris, as well as any determined Lightner, can create dark fountains that sustain entire Dark Worlds, which are at least as large as a city (City, Debatable, see Before the Verdict)
Dr. Coomer
The Science Team
Coomer is frequently portrayed as comparable to the rest of the gang, throwing hands with Bubby, taking hits from Gordon, and fighting with Tommy in his boss battle, so he should scale to anything the others do.
The crew in general tanks hits from explosives with little to no issue and consistently destroys large wooden boxes.
Bubby casually writes his name into a stone wall with nothing but his finger.
Gordon chugs a barrel really quickly (1.49 m/s)
Gordon Freeman caught bullets (23.1 m/s)
Bubby moved in-tandem with turret fire (27.63 m/s)
Gordon Freeman uppercutted a giant Benry (250.91 Kilojoules)
Bubby survived the resonance cascade explosion without an HEV suit (0.0011 Tons of TNT)
Gordon Freeman survives this car explosion (0.26 Tons of TNT)
They tank hits from Golem Apes, which can bust through large chunks of rock (2.13 Tons of TNT)
Gordon tanked a grenade explosion that killed a room full of people (12.03 Tons of TNT)
Benry (Debatable)
The main villain of HLVRAI, Benry is an absolute force to be reckoned with.
So, since the cast eventually defeated him, they should scale, right?
Well… it’s complicated.
Normally, no, they do not scale at all. It is made very clear that they are physically incapable of hurting him, only damaging him in any way through the use of one-time power-ups.
On that note, would SuperPlayerTM Feature Coomer scale?
Probably. He could do legit damage to Benry, fucking up his body, and while you could argue that this was due to them destroying the passports, which weakened him, nothing actually indicates that he was getting physically weaker, as we later see in the commentary videos that he’s not only alive, but just as unkillable as ever, additionally, Gordon claims he's stronger than ever after destroying his passport, and that the passports were what were protecting him to begin with. Finally, it's explicitly stated by scientists that the rift is being sustained by his power (proved by them closing after he died), and since the rift didn't close even after all the passports were destroyed, it means he likely wasn't getting any weaker, giving a lot more credibility to the idea that the passports were simply protecting him from harm.
So, Coomer in his strongest form should at least downscale, although it is debatable whether Coomer should even get it to begin with (see Before the Verdict).
Could scale to Sony CEO Jack Tretton, who is said to have survived a nuclear bomb (City, debatable)
His power caused and sustained rifts between Earth and Zen, an alternate dimension, and even caused the merging of multiple timelines (Uni+, potentially Low-Multi)
Cosmology
Spamton
Dark Worlds
The Dark Worlds found throughout Deltarune are areas created through the forming of a Dark Fountain, which shrouds the surrounding area in darkness, transforming it into a Dark World.
Dark Worlds tend to have a non-euclidean property. For instance, a Dark World created inside a supply closet could be as big as an entire kingdom. The biggest Dark World we've seen so far is even the size of a city.
Finally, due to their source, Dark Worlds are sustained by their Dark Fountains, so closing it will cause the Dark World to disappear until another is opened.
Dr. Coomer
For some reason, HLVRAI has a notable cosmology to talk about, so let's just skip to the blabber and get to it.
Zen
First things first, Zen is an alternate universe that originally existed separately from Earth, till the Resonance Cascade (in this story, caused by Benry) caused rifts that allowed aliens from this world to invade our world.
Alternate Timelines
As stated by Benry and confirmed in the commentary, there indeed are multiple timelines who, near the climax to ACT 4, began converging on one another as a result of Benry fucking shit up. While we never get an exact number, there being more than 1 is notable nonetheless.
Time Strand
Referred to as a place between timelines in the commentary, this is the place Bubby sends Gordon to in order to retrieve his passport. While it shares properties with the original Black Mesa facility, there are multiple discrepancies with its layout, such as the lockers having the names of the cast (and Coomer a lot of times) and there being no visible damage anywhere despite the events of the game. Most notably, changes done here do indeed affect the future timeline, as mentioned by Dr. Coomer, meaning its strange nature as an alternate and past universe means that both time and dimensional travel would be needed to access it.
Weaknesses
Spamton
Being insane and glitchy can cause lots of issues with the way that Spamton speaks and produces text. While his NEO form is very powerful, it can be defeated by cutting the strings that hold the form up with enough damage.
Dr. Coomer
For all of Dr. Coomer's strengths, he still is a broken AI. His dialogue can sometimes break, getting stuck on certain words and sentences. His PlayCoinTM abilities are notably limited to Gordon, only being able to use them with his permission; while it's possible he might be able to bypass this, we've never seen the main timeline Coomer do it (see Before the Verdict).
He also suffers from being allergic to green slime.
Before The Verdict
Dark Fountain Scaling
So, one of the most contentious points of Deltarune scaling is whether characters should scale to Dark Fountains.
We know for a fact that Dark Fountains create the Dark Worlds, which have been shown to be as large as entire cities at least. It's easy to point at these and simply label them off as creation feats not applicable to physical stats, but there's actually more to it than that.
For starters, let's establish how Dark Fountains are formed. By channelling their determination into a blade and stabbing the ground, a Lightner can create a Dark Fountain with the power of their will. This is important because, as explained by Ralsei, a person's soul makes up their very being. It is their will. Essentially, Dark Fountains are created through the power of a Lightner’s soul. This would make sense, as Darkners like Spamton are heavily implied to lack a soul, and only Lightners seem to be able to create Dark Fountains, as Queen required one to create more, further backing up the idea that it is the power of the soul that forms a Dark Fountain. Finally, Kris is able to close Dark Fountains using the power of their soul, which makes a strong case for the soul's power scaling to the Dark Fountains.
Now, why does any of this matter? No one tanks the power of a Lightner's soul… or do they?
During the final boss of both Chapter 1 and 2, Kris is able to channel the power of their soul into their friends to significantly boost their attacks. For instance, they can channel their soul's power into Susie's axe, much the same way that they channel their soul's power into a blade to form Dark Fountains, to create the Red Buster, and characters like King and Queen, who the main cast is able to fight, damage, and takes hits from, are capable of withstanding these hits consistently, giving strong evidence towards the idea that they can scale to the soul's power, and thus, the Dark Fountains. From there, it's not too hard to scale others to it. This isn't really an outlier either as only high-tier characters who fight evenly with the main cast would scale, and such high-tiers like Spamton NEO blatantly display abilities capable of affecting and warping entire cities, meaning this level of power is far from unfounded.
Of course, a good counter-argument to bring up would be the ending of Chapter 2. At the end of it, Kris removes their soul, channels their determination into a blade, and forms a Dark Fountain. This heavily implies that determination and the power of the soul aren't necessarily linked, and thus, characters withstanding the power of the soul wouldn't scale to the Dark Fountains, but there's still one issue with this. We know for a fact that the soul’s power is capable of sealing Dark Fountains. Not only do we explicitly see that it's the soul that does this, but the flavour text that is shown when it's done backs this up, giving good precedent to the idea that, even if you believe determination and the soul are two separate things, the soul’s power would scale anyways to the Dark Fountains, and thus, high-tier Deltarune characters would as well.
Clone Durability
The Coomer clones are an interesting part of the good doctor's arsenal, but how durable are they, and are they less than Dr. Coomer himself? It seems that all 300 die to Tommy gunning them down. This is backed up when the ‘real’ Coomer appears later, with Tommy accidentally unloading two shotgun bolts into Dr. Coomer, noting that he didn’t die so he must not be a clone.
But there are some counterarguments. These characters have varying durability, Coomer himself has died to much less, like this large fall, and another similar one later on. Of course, these guys don’t power scale and it’s all about gags, but it makes Tommy's claim less credible. The Coomer that Tommy shoots is unconfirmed to be the real one or not, intentionally left that way by the creators, and he also dies in one shotgun blast.
PlayCoinsTM and Benry Scaling
These two are linked to one another, so they share a section here.
As mentioned earlier, PlayCoinsTM allow Coomer to access powerful abilities such as time/dimensional travel and the ability to enter a super form powerful enough to harm Benry. This is impressive due to Benry being referred to as the energy source the scientists were talking about throughout the game that caused all its events. Essentially, Benry's power was what caused the rifts between Zen and Earth to open, and more notably, it resulted in various timelines beginning to merge into one another. This alone could yield Uni+ to Low-Multi levels of power; however, PlayCoinsTM hold a notable limitation.
As Coomer points out, he cannot do a lot without Gordon's permission due to his nature as a game AI. His use of PlayCoinTM abilities is an in-universe game mechanic only accessible through the player, it's not something he can just activate at will. This is shown with how he is unable to perform certain actions without being given PlayCoinsTM first.
So, are these abilities and scaling unusable?
Well… not quite.
Coomer does have a large collection of PlayCoinsTM on hand, so he should theoretically be capable of giving them to himself to access these abilities. Coomer’s clones and Coomer’s alternate self also showed the ability to break free from their programming and act independently, with Coomer’s clones going so far as to try to kill Gordon and fully reveal the nature of the game’s AIs, meaning that the main Coomer should be capable of doing the same given enough time, breaking free from his programming and acting on his own to access the abilities.
So, can he use it?
Eh…
Technically, we never see mainline Coomer fully break out of his programming, and both instances of a Coomer breaking free from their programming usually had to do with Gordon, but technically, all Gordon really did was sidetrack the Coomers from the scripted sequence of their programming, so theoretically, in a situation where he's being attacked by an external entity, he might be able to escape his programming and use these powers.
Overall, whether or not Coomer should gain access to PlayCoinTM abilities is extremely debatable, so make of it what you will.
Verdict
For two characters with such small media lists, this MU has a lot more meat on the bone than you'd think, so let's jump right in with:
Stats
This is fairly straightforward, but still quite interesting nonetheless. Looking at solely low-ends, Spamton’s BIG SHOT gets up to 0.075 Tons of TNT and, scaling to Susie, can reach speeds up to Mach 0.19. He should also scale to the trio surviving Jevil's Final Chaos, putting him at 1.76 Tons of TNT. On the other hand, Coomer’s RPG (which he does tank) gets up to 0.029 Tons of TNT, with his own speed feat of outrunning those mine explosions reaching Mach 4.14, not to mention him scaling to Golem Apes, whose power puts him comfortably at 2.13 Tons of TNT. In terms of low-ends, it's clear Coomer edges out here with being comfortably much faster, and edging out in power.
Now onto the more interesting discussion, the high-ends. While Spamton can certainly scale to Berdly's car explosion, crawling up to 5.68 Tons of TNT, and he does react to Kris’ Mach 3.46 projectiles, that simply pales in comparison to Coomer scaling to Gordon surviving that grenade explosion worth 12.03 Tons of TNT, and especially Coomer's own absurd displays of speed, flying at speeds up to Mach 406.13 and moving in-tandem with Sunkist's lasers at speeds of 69.81% SoL. While the gap in strength is actually fairly close, only making Coomer roughly 2x stronger, the speed difference is, frankly, absurd, and while Coomer's trip to space is only travel speed, in terms of his relativistic end, several characters like Gordon were able to react and keep up with Coomer's flying in the climax of ACT 4, meaning it certainly should scale to reactions. And while Spamton in his BIG SHOT form is capable of lifting 289,361.3 kg, Coomer’s crusher feat places him not far behind at 237,761.12 kg, making it unlikely for Spamton to overpower him.
That should cover stats… if it wasn't for the silly ends.
Both have much higher-ends based on debatable scaling that will need to be addressed, but which is more valid?
Starting off with Spamton, he can reach City levels of power scaling him to the Dark Fountains creating entirely worlds (as discussed in the BtV section), while Coomer can reach City, and more importantly, Uni+ to Low-Multi levels of AP when activating the SuperPlayerTM Feature. While this does seem to provide Coomer with a clear and hilariously one-sided advantage, his scaling also requires a little more leniency. Spamton’s scaling relies in simply scaling him directly to characters tanking the power of Kris’s soul, which he should already logically scale to, and it's a level of power that's backed-up by his one-screen powers. Coomer’s scaling relies on him meeting a specific condition, breaking out of his programming, that we’ve technically never seen him achieve. Yes, we’ve seen an alternate version of him achieve it, which, based on the context, means it's not unreasonable to assume mainline Coomer could achieve it in a serious life-or-death situation such as this one, but it does still ultimately make it a little less viable than Spamton's otherwise quite straightforward scaling. Do keep in mind, however, that even with Spamton's higher-ends, Coomer still holds a massive speed advantage, regardless of what speed you buy for Spamton.
Overall, Coomer holds a sizeable advantage with most ends, however, Spamton's more consistent high-ends would give him a significant AP advantage here, but despite that, still leave him as much slower.
Arsenal & Abilities
The main point of interest in this debate, these two have a large list of… let's just say, unorthodox skill sets, which fittingly counter each other in unorthodox ways.
Coomer obviously holds an edge here in terms of sheer firepower. Guns? Explosives? THE BIG ONE? Coomer has it all. And while Spamton does have his own ranged options, the sheer size of Coomer’s array gives him a big edge, which would let him consistently keep up the assault on Spamton, especially with his sheer mobility. While both have good mobility, Coomer's PowerLegs, teleportation, and of course, ROPES, gives him a lot more options to manoeuvre around the environment, though don't count Spamton out yet. His large-scale reality warping would let him even out the scale, controlling the flow of the fight and let him always have the home field advantage, which could severely limit most of Coomer’s mobility options besides his teleportation.
Of course, we can't forget to bring up their armies. Coomer certainly holds a numbers advantage here with his 300 clones, which could easily overwhelm Spamton, but unlike Coomer’s, Spamton’s own copies are more disposable, as he can merely create more, which is something Coomer lacks. Additionally, it's questionable if Coomer’s clones are at all close to how powerful Coomer himself is, with the story very much presenting them as significantly weaker, and with Spamton not being far behind in AP, and his reality warping allowing him to control the pace of the fight, he should have little issue rounding them up and obliterating them with one of his stronger attacks like his BIG SHOT. Of course, do keep in mind that Coomer’s variety of AOE options with his explosives would let him make short work of Spamton’s own army, which he can create significantly less of, so overall, neither of their armies influence the fight much in the long run.
Both can resist electricity, so that won't come into play really. Both can shape their bodies in bizarre ways to catch the other off-guard, like Spamton turning his hands into phones or attacking with his heart, and Coomer turning his arm into an RPG. Both possess some level of 4th wall awareness and can increase their own stats, Spamton with his rage mode and Bluelight Special, and Coomer through absorbing his clone’s power, so neither is realistically shifting the tide over time, and most interestingly, both have methods to heal themselves, however, Coomer’s is generally more consistent and residual, while Spamton’s is a one-time use, helping Coomer out more in the long run, and while Spamton can heal himself with Pipis, Coomer's Extendo-Arms would let him steal them and use them for himself, which leads nicely into their own individual advantages.
Coomer is, obviously, much more unkillable. His cybernetics reset his brain upon death, allowing him to continue returning to life, and he can continue fighting through hilarious amounts of blood loss, making him seemingly unkillable, but as it turns out, Spamton has the perfect counter. Spamton’s attacks directly target the soul, aiming to destroy it, which is something we've never seen Coomer come back from, meaning that enough hits from Spamton will be enough to put our fellow scientist down for good. Of course, the issue then comes in with landing hits on him. Yes, while Spamton can wipe out most of Coomer’s army relatively quickly, Coomer still retains their memories and sees what they see, which, combined with his extrasensory perception allowing him to sense even the changes in one’s DNA, should let him scout out most of Spamton’s attacks and abilities, giving him the tools necessary to avoid them all together. On the other hand, while Coomer would be able to potentially squeak out a win using his PlayCoinTM abilities if you want to give him those, such as sending Spamton to another dimension, or simply obtaining cosmic levels of power, Spamton’s ability to absorb his foe’s money would shockingly let him absorb Coomer’s PlayCoinsTM and put a stop to his pay-to-win buffoonery. Although, there is also an argument to be made that Coomer’s Extendo-Arms would let him recover his lost money, especially with them being able to pull things through walls, tho, due to Spamton’s absorption being described as, well, absorption, it is questionable if Coomer would be able to recover them from him, ultimately making PlayCoinsTM a moot point, ironically.
All this being said, these two certainly seem to match each other almost blow for blow, however, in terms of clear wincons, Coomer holds the edge.
The Black Mesa Sweet Voice is, simply put, way too versatile for Spamton to be able to counter. It can immobilise him, make noises loud enough to kill him, mess with his emotions to control his actions, and even full-on disintegrate him, all of which Spamton has no real answer for. Add on Coomer's massive speed advantage, and it becomes clear that, between the two, Coomer will have a much easier time actually pulling through with a win than otherwise. And if Coomer ever manages to enter Spamton's body (which would actually be much easier if Spamton enters his BIG SHOT mode), he can possess Spamton, pulling his strings like the puppet he is.
Overall, these two are evenly matched in a lot of shocking categories, but Coomer’s greater versatility with his weapons and clearer win-conditions gives him the edge.
Tertiary Factors
Unlike the last ones, this is quite clear cut. While Spamton has been in his fair share of fights, Coomer has battled through armies of aliens, trained military men, and a literal deity back to back to back, with very little room to rest. Also, don't forget, Coomer ran the underground boxing ring at Black Mesa, becoming the champion for years, meaning Coomer obviously holds a stamina and experience advantage, and with his mastery of firearms, boxing, and general scientific knowledge, Spamton will definitely find himself overwhelmed.
Last thing of note, Coomer is consistently shown to be the more, er, “put together” of the two in serious situations. He’s been shown multiple times coming to his senses and finding ways to defeat powerful threats when the situation calls for it, while Spamton’s moments of clarity are more rare and have never been shown to really kick in during a fight, making Coomer dominate the tertiary factors with relative ease.
Conclusion
While Spamton certainly has some solid advantages here, and is likely much stronger based on their more reliable-ends, Coomer consistently clears most other stat-ends, is always much faster, holds basically every tertiary advantage, and most importantly, has clearer win-conditions that Spamton has no clear answer to, ultimately lending him the win.
Summary
Spamton
Advantages:
Far stronger without cosmic PlayCoinTM scaling.
Could easily wipe out Coomer's army.
Reality warping counters most mobility options…
More disposable minions.
Can use Pipis to heal…
Could absorb Coomer’s PlayCoinsTM
Better AOE with attacks.
Stole Jevil’s popularity so hard it's not even funny.
Ties:
Can shift his body into weapons.
Had 4th wall awareness.
Relative lifting strength.
Could increase his stats.
Disadvantages:
Significantly slower.
…But he had no answer to teleportation.
No counters to the Black Mesa Sweet Voice.
Possession is uncounterable.
…But they could be stolen.
Less reliable win-conditions.
Easier to kill.
His strings are a big weakness.
Dumber and less put together.
Way less combat experience.
Lend me some power, Bluelight Special. This is base Kris we're up against.
Dr. Coomer
Advantages:
Significantly faster.
Huge numbers advantage with clones.
Significantly harder to kill…
Black Mesa Sweet Voice provides uncounterable options
Less exploitable weaknesses.
Better healing.
Could possess Spamton by crawling inside him.
Clone hive mind would let him gain more knowledge on Spamton's abilities.
Extrasensory Perception made him harder to sneak up on.
Might be able to recover PlayCoinsTM with Extendo-Arms…
Could potentially access more wincons and cosmic levels of power with PlayCoinsTM…
Smarter and relatively sane.
Far more experienced in combat.
Ties:
Can shift his body into weapons.
Had 4th wall awareness.
Relative lifting strength.
Could increase his stats.
Disadvantages:
Weaker without cosmic PlayCoinTM scaling.
…But his immortality is bypassed by all of Spamton's attacks.
Would struggle with Spamton's reality warping.
…Though Spamton’s absorption makes this dubious.
…But it’s debatable if he should get them, and they could be stolen.
Technically worse army.
Benry is funnier, I'm sorry.
Spamton believed it was his time to be a BIG SHOT, but when the time had come, he found there was nothing there but a simple puppet.
The winner is Dr. Coomer.
Final Vote
Team Spamton [0] (Rest in [PIPIS])
Team Dr. Coomer [5] (Saul, NormallyNormal, Fenic, TheRealGnomeChompski, Tru)
Winner
Just one more thing….
As I sit here, at 3 AM in the morning, I want to thank people for getting this blog done. Nroaml came in clutch and picked the blog up when I cancelled it. He did a bunch of research, alot of calcs, and was great to be around. Fenic helped with Deltarune research and linking, Gnome did a bunch of Coomer research, and Tru was here. After 5 months, this blog is done.
This isn't all positive news, sadly. As DB came back to life, and summer ended, the interest in blogs began to deminish. Shifu VS Splinter, a project that was going incredibly well, is currently in status. We don't have enough people who're motivated to work on the blog and I cannot solo that amount of research myself, i'm sorry.
My interest for running this blog has hit an all time low due to this and Manchester Makima's cancellation earlier on. The future of my blogs is uncertain, I do not know if I'm going to continue.
But, I do at least want to give you guys one more blog before we potentially stop forever.
Put on a happy face.
Hello, Gordon!
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame that you are possibly going to leave this, your Blogs are my favorite in general and I always enjoy it when you bring out a new one. Best of luck and best of luck!
ReplyDelete